BUT, Can You Jam? Beginner to Pro: Guitar Chords & Tab, Drum Machine, Slap Bass

Question:

That’s all well and good, but Pat Boone and Chubby Checker didn’t have their own music. They made bland copies of other people’s music. This is great. I’ve never heard of anyone putting me down because I didn’t have the good fortune of *not* being a musician. Please, feel free to keep on expounding.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > I agree. Tough to compare this week’s top 40 to a whole decade, maybe > more, > > > of music. > > > Of course there were better songs in the ’60’s than there are today. > Ever > > > look at Billboard for any particular week of the ’60’s? There was always > > > garbage out there. Pat Boone, Vanilla Fudge, Chubby Checker, etc. > > LOL,….. > > Pat Boone, appealed to a much larger age group in the music market > > place. > > Chubby Checker, yet a different segment of the music market at the time. > > The Vanilla Fudge, took covers to a different place in their first two > > albums, where other American groups would have never thought to think > > outside of the box and push the envelope in music. > > All three left their mark in music, sold records, and many other bands > > played their material to hold their audiances at gigs. > > This, gives testament their music was not garbage. > ???? > Pat Boone, bad covers taking advantage of racial discrimination. No real > talent worth mentioning besides an extremely whitebread sounding voice. > That whitebread voice at least had was a Sonic Pleasentry of melody, > when compared to those of today who think the screech and pitch range of > a parrot, is singing. > Now you hit one of the freaking things I really hate about the ever > popular Musician Mentality that started after the late 60’s. > This judgemental musicalical discrimination and musical bigotry that > musicians have towards other musicians. Which, totally ignores an > artist’s accomplishments in showmanship, entertainment value, musical > talent, and successes with the listening audiance. > I hear this mostly from those without talent who have not been there, > and done it themselves.  And, are clueless of what it is like to be the > artist they are bashing. > I’m tired of the talent envy, by the talentless clueless musician wanna > be. > Chubby Checker, a few hit wonder whose tunes were mostly gimmick stuff. > The Fudge. > Mob bad, wasn’t it? > Twang, when you have documented your music as the Vanilla Fudge has, > then your words will mean something. > Would you like to present some documentation for the music you have > composed and arranged.  Point to where we all can find and listen to > your CD. > If you’re criteria in this thread set a standard which Boone Checker and > Fudge exemplified, then all I can do is laugh. > Well, laugh your freaking ass off all you want my friend.  For you > should have as much dancing feet in front of your stage packed to the > point to where you can not see the floor, and have made as many people > happy with your music as to get up out of their homes and travel to hear > and dance to your music as Chubby Checker has. > Till you have done that with YOUR music, you are > I wouldn’t save that crap for anything. > (maybe the fudge.. kinda kinky) > > <thinking> > > Again, the view of a musician standing on the other side of the line > > from the listener. > Bullshit > Yeah, I guess it’s bullshit to someone without the understanding and > awareness of what the non playing Listener of music, perceives as music > and sound. > Any listener in the world could have said what you just said..they sold some > records, they played some gigs. > Big Deal. > Yeah man, it is a Big Deal to the musician who wonders why the hell > THEIR music doesn’t get people excited. > In fact, if I were posting here and complaining about the old music, I’d > have at least brought up Boone as a perfect example of what corrupts music.. > listener and player alike. > Twang! > Twang, there is MORE to this Pat Boone thing than his music you don’t > like.  It goes deeper than that, or are you just another musical bigot > who gives a one sided critique that overlooks the music itself.  I > noticed you didn’t mention any of his songs to detail by example to > support you point. > Just because his hairstyle of the sound of his voice didn’t get you > excited means the MUSIC was bad. > His music worked, so why don’t you just say, you don’t like Pat Boone, > and his music didn’t get you excited. > But then, for our consideration, you could present Pat Boone compared to > Type O Negative for support of your point.  Or, would it be my point. > Anyway, been in touch with the Strat Queen lately. > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, >        Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I agree. Tough to compare this week’s top 40 to a whole decade, maybe > more, > > of music. > > Of course there were better songs in the ’60’s than there are today. > Ever > > look at Billboard for any particular week of the ’60’s? There was always > > garbage out there. Pat Boone, Vanilla Fudge, Chubby Checker, etc. > LOL,….. > Pat Boone, appealed to a much larger age group in the music market > place. > Chubby Checker, yet a different segment of the music market at the time. > The Vanilla Fudge, took covers to a different place in their first two > albums, where other American groups would have never thought to think > outside of the box and push the envelope in music. > All three left their mark in music, sold records, and many other bands > played their material to hold their audiances at gigs. > This, gives testament their music was not garbage. > ???? > Pat Boone, bad covers taking advantage of racial discrimination. No real > talent worth mentioning besides an extremely whitebread sounding voice.

That whitebread voice at least had was a Sonic Pleasentry of melody, when compared to those of today who think the screech and pitch range of a parrot, is singing. Now you hit one of the freaking things I really hate about the ever popular Musician Mentality that started after the late 60’s. This judgemental musicalical discrimination and musical bigotry that musicians have towards other musicians. Which, totally ignores an artist’s accomplishments in showmanship, entertainment value, musical talent, and successes with the listening audiance.   I hear this mostly from those without talent who have not been there, and done it themselves.  And, are clueless of what it is like to be the artist they are bashing. I’m tired of the talent envy, by the talentless clueless musician wanna be. > Chubby Checker, a few hit wonder whose tunes were mostly gimmick stuff. > The Fudge. > Mob bad, wasn’t it?

Twang, when you have documented your music as the Vanilla Fudge has, then your words will mean something. Would you like to present some documentation for the music you have composed and arranged.  Point to where we all can find and listen to your CD. > If you’re criteria in this thread set a standard which Boone Checker and > Fudge exemplified, then all I can do is laugh.

Well, laugh your freaking ass off all you want my friend.  For you should have as much dancing feet in front of your stage packed to the point to where you can not see the floor, and have made as many people happy with your music as to get up out of their homes and travel to hear and dance to your music as Chubby Checker has. Till you have done that with YOUR music, you are > I wouldn’t save that crap for anything. > (maybe the fudge.. kinda kinky) > <thinking> > Again, the view of a musician standing on the other side of the line > from the listener. > Bullshit

Yeah, I guess it’s bullshit to someone without the understanding and awareness of what the non playing Listener of music, perceives as music and sound. > Any listener in the world could have said what you just said..they sold some > records, they played some gigs. > Big Deal.

Yeah man, it is a Big Deal to the musician who wonders why the hell THEIR music doesn’t get people excited.   > In fact, if I were posting here and complaining about the old music, I’d > have at least brought up Boone as a perfect example of what corrupts music.. > listener and player alike. > Twang!

Twang, there is MORE to this Pat Boone thing than his music you don’t like.  It goes deeper than that, or are you just another musical bigot who gives a one sided critique that overlooks the music itself.  I noticed you didn’t mention any of his songs to detail by example to support you point. Just because his hairstyle of the sound of his voice didn’t get you excited means the MUSIC was bad. His music worked, so why don’t you just say, you don’t like Pat Boone, and his music didn’t get you excited. But then, for our consideration, you could present Pat Boone compared to Type O Negative for support of your point.  Or, would it be my point. Anyway, been in touch with the Strat Queen lately. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I agree. Tough to compare this week’s top 40 to a whole decade, maybe more, > of music. > Of course there were better songs in the ’60’s than there are today. Ever > look at Billboard for any particular week of the ’60’s? There was always > garbage out there. Pat Boone, Vanilla Fudge, Chubby Checker, etc. > LOL,….. > Pat Boone, appealed to a much larger age group in the music market > place. > Chubby Checker, yet a different segment of the music market at the time. > The Vanilla Fudge, took covers to a different place in their first two > albums, where other American groups would have never thought to think > outside of the box and push the envelope in music. > All three left their mark in music, sold records, and many other bands > played their material to hold their audiances at gigs. > This, gives testament their music was not garbage.

???? Pat Boone, bad covers taking advantage of racial discrimination. No real talent worth mentioning besides an extremely whitebread sounding voice. Chubby Checker, a few hit wonder whose tunes were mostly gimmick stuff. The Fudge. Mob bad, wasn’t it? If you’re criteria in this thread set a standard which Boone Checker and Fudge exemplified, then all I can do is laugh. I wouldn’t save that crap for anything. (maybe the fudge.. kinda kinky) > <thinking> > Again, the view of a musician standing on the other side of the line > from the listener.

Bullshit Any listener in the world could have said what you just said..they sold some records, they played some gigs. Big Deal. In fact, if I were posting here and complaining about the old music, I’d have at least brought up Boone as a perfect example of what corrupts music.. listener and player alike. Twang! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, >        Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "give me back the days of that old Rolling Stones clip any day" > Right-on, Rich. > I have 45 minutes of stones live from the sixties. > the music is full of screwing around, forgetting parts, instruments starting > and stopping at the wrong places, bad notes, and more. > It’s fun. It’s exciting. And when they get one right they still thrill me. > But really.. stop living in the past. look around. > for godsake the degree of crappy music and mercenary intent hasn’t changed. > there’s just more of it. and so it shall be in the future. > does it suck? yeah. > At one time I really thought that some sort of new musical ethos would > arrive on the heels of the great rock n roll. > what’d we get? > Nashville stole the long hair and tight pants.. they stole the musical > ideas.. pop music did, too. > and generally, it’s the same old same old. > You wanna say the new stuff isn’t good. to me, you’re just making a fool of > yourself, and admitting you quit hearing. > Twang!

It is one thing to turn a deaf ear to Music. The non playing LISTENER, KNOWS what both Music, and NOISE is all about. On this subject, the musician doesn’t count. ONLY, what the non playing LISTENER thinks is music, is what <thinking> It’s also very nice when you have an educated listening public, with a background in music appreciation, from a school system versed in the music of the American culture. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

The ‘Fudge’ were awesome, saw them live in Edmonton, AB.  Bogert and Appice were okay too when they joined briefly with Jeff Beck for the Beck, Bogert, Appice thing. Even the original Deep Purple (the Mark I band, not the later drivel) was pushing the edge, some critics claim Richie’s guitar playing was derivative however.  I don’t have the credentials to dispute that but, derivative or not, he was still entertaining though, on occassion, hiding his wah would not have been a bad idea.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I agree. Tough to compare this week’s top 40 to a whole decade, maybe more, > of music. > Of course there were better songs in the ’60’s than there are today. Ever > look at Billboard for any particular week of the ’60’s? There was always > garbage out there. Pat Boone, Vanilla Fudge, Chubby Checker, etc. > LOL,….. > Pat Boone, appealed to a much larger age group in the music market > place. > Chubby Checker, yet a different segment of the music market at the time. > The Vanilla Fudge, took covers to a different place in their first two > albums, where other American groups would have never thought to think > outside of the box and push the envelope in music. > All three left their mark in music, sold records, and many other bands > played their material to hold their audiances at gigs. > This, gives testament their music was not garbage. > <thinking> > Again, the view of a musician standing on the other side of the line > from the listener. > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, >        Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

> I agree. Tough to compare this week’s top 40 to a whole decade, maybe more, > of music. > Of course there were better songs in the ’60’s than there are today. Ever > look at Billboard for any particular week of the ’60’s? There was always > garbage out there. Pat Boone, Vanilla Fudge, Chubby Checker, etc.

LOL,….. Pat Boone, appealed to a much larger age group in the music market place. Chubby Checker, yet a different segment of the music market at the time. The Vanilla Fudge, took covers to a different place in their first two albums, where other American groups would have never thought to think outside of the box and push the envelope in music. All three left their mark in music, sold records, and many other bands played their material to hold their audiances at gigs. This, gives testament their music was not garbage. <thinking> Again, the view of a musician standing on the other side of the line from the listener. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

I agree. Tough to compare this week’s top 40 to a whole decade, maybe more, of music. Of course there were better songs in the ’60’s than there are today. Ever look at Billboard for any particular week of the ’60’s? There was always garbage out there. Pat Boone, Vanilla Fudge, Chubby Checker, etc. That stuff wasn’t the Britney Spears of today?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "give me back the days of that old Rolling Stones clip any day" > Right-on, Rich. > I have 45 minutes of stones live from the sixties. > the music is full of screwing around, forgetting parts, instruments starting > and stopping at the wrong places, bad notes, and more. > It’s fun. It’s exciting. And when they get one right they still thrill me. > But really.. stop living in the past. look around. > for godsake the degree of crappy music and mercenary intent hasn’t changed. > there’s just more of it. and so it shall be in the future. > does it suck? yeah. > At one time I really thought that some sort of new musical ethos would > arrive on the heels of the great rock n roll. > what’d we get? > Nashville stole the long hair and tight pants.. they stole the musical > ideas.. pop music did, too. > and generally, it’s the same old same old. > You wanna say the new stuff isn’t good. to me, you’re just making a fool of > yourself, and admitting you quit hearing. > Twang! > Phil Farano > Ampmedic > > Hi Musicians! > > I want to let everyone know of three FunkyChops.com items made by a > > musician…me! > > My name is Jimmy and I’m a self-taught musician. As a result, I have a > > non-theoretical approach to learining. I know that there are sure > > benefits to a solid, thoretical perspective, but I just wanted to play > > & have fun. That’s why I created FunkyChops. > > Right now (5/22/03), I’m offering three items… each is less than $20 > > and you can even download them now: > > 1) QuickBeat.com Human Drummer – for all musicians > > 2) SuperChords.com Creative Instruction – for guitarists > > 3) FunkyChops.com 101 Slap Bass Riffs – for bass players > > QUICKBEAT HUMAN DRUMMER > > Everyone knows that playing with a drummer is one of the fastest ways > > to develop your jamming & playing skills. Play along with a mechanical > > drum machine and you’ll sound like a robot. The Human Drummer is the > > next-best thing to a live person. http://www.quickbeat.com > > SUPERCHORDS GUITAR > > Create a song before even learing the chords. How? The SuperChords > > instruction method helps inspre creativity and develops your > > "ear-trained" abilities. http://www.superchords.com > > FUNKYCHOPS SLAP BASS > > I created this so people could play/learn slap bass riffs without > > theory. It’s kind of like having a friend who plays slap bass. He/she > > play a riff, and you say "Cool! Can you play that again slower?" Sure! > > The FunkyChops video plays the riff slower and you learn it by > > imitating. FunkyChops forces you to develop your "ear-training" > > abilities. Arguably, good ear-trained hearing abilities is the most > > valuable asset as a musician. You have to "hear well" to be creative > > in what notes you do or don’t play. So, I fully believe that hearing > > ability is directly related to your playing ability potential. > > Beginning bass players, this is my tip for you: develop your > > "ear-playing" abilities. Bass pros, I’m sure you’ll agree through the > > wisdom of your experience that this is true… maybe you don’t. Please > > reply to this post and let me know what you think.CD-ROM or INSTANT > > download at http://www.funkychops.com > > Anyway, I’m just an honest artist (painter, drummer, bassist, etc.) > > trying to make some money with my creative abilities. As a fellow > > musician, I do not want to rip-off other musicians. I think you may > > find FunkChops to be cool. Thanks for you time. Thanks for supporting > > a non-corporate product made in the USA. > > Jimmy Lee > Well Jimmy Lee,…. > There is a DIFFERENCE between Jamming Skills, and PLAYING Skills!!!!! > Your teaching aids may apply to PLAYING skills, but with regard to > improved Jamming skills, that is a very different matter. > As long as your teaching aids embraces the self-taught concept, for the > user of your products, only the principles can be stated, and not > practiced without the band setting. > Many knowledgeable players, even with years of playing experience, can > NOT jam if their lives depended on it. > Social skills are not learned along on a deserted island by sitting with > a learning CD that may address such. > However, I have a very bad taste in my mouth from all the SHORTCUT > methods around us today.  A short cut to this, and a shortcut to that. > So, show me the benefits from using these Shortcut Methods in MUSIC. > I saw an old black and white video clip of the Rolling Stones looking > like they were still in high school playing REAL music.  Show me the > same, with today’s generation of musicians.  At least the knew the > correct usage of musical form, and structure.  They had an idea of what > MUSIC really is, what it MEANS to the average non playing music > LISTENER, and WHY they enjoy the music. > If this UNDERSTANDING is NOT made crystal clear in your teaching aids, > then there is NO hope for a better world of MUSIC.  The world of MUSIC > will remain only for the 12-18 year olds that the Music Industry has for > a musical targeted market, with the 24-34 year olds as the signed > musical stars of a so-called music culture. > The music LISTENING world is no longer interest in the music of only the > young stars paraded in front of us as the perfect music stars that > TECHNOLOGY can give us.  From the computer generated music software, to > the software that makes no talents perfect in the studio, to the > technology that makes the glitz and dazzle of the concert stage as an > exercise in technology, give me back the days of that old Rolling Stones > clip any day. > To watch and listen to the old Stone clip, it was ALL about the MUSIC > that the non playing LISTENER enjoyed. > Now, it’s not about MUSIC, because the MUSIC is lacking something, and > THAT comes from the musicians making it. > Therefore, the NEED to make up for this something that is lacking, > requires the over use of the technology to Polish a Turd, MAKE it a > selling product to a non playing market that is no longer interested in > Polished Turds. > So, here is my question, in the world of shortcuts, how is your teaching > aids going to put REAL music back on the table, for the starved non > playing music LISTENER to come and taste from the table. > What menu are you serving up for the musician, to feed a disinterested > music culture of ALL ages today. > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, >        Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

>Rich’s style should be familiar to you. The main thrust of all >arguments seem to be "the past is good, the present is bad". Anything else, >especially the "once you become a player, you cannot understand/relate to >the non-player" is simply babbling

    Without commenting on the validity of any of the arguments presented in this thread, I will state the following. My interest in music has increased, since I’ve become a player, I now listen to things I would never have listened to before, and can appreciate the skill involed in playing even songs I don’t like.                                  Eric commercial free radio WFUV 90.7

Response:

> "give me back the days of that old Rolling Stones clip any day" > Right-on, Rich.

I have 45 minutes of stones live from the sixties. the music is full of screwing around, forgetting parts, instruments starting and stopping at the wrong places, bad notes, and more. It’s fun. It’s exciting. And when they get one right they still thrill me. But really.. stop living in the past. look around. for godsake the degree of crappy music and mercenary intent hasn’t changed. there’s just more of it. and so it shall be in the future. does it suck? yeah. At one time I really thought that some sort of new musical ethos would arrive on the heels of the great rock n roll. what’d we get? Nashville stole the long hair and tight pants.. they stole the musical ideas.. pop music did, too. and generally, it’s the same old same old. You wanna say the new stuff isn’t good. to me, you’re just making a fool of yourself, and admitting you quit hearing. Twang! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Phil Farano > Ampmedic > Hi Musicians! > I want to let everyone know of three FunkyChops.com items made by a > musician…me! > My name is Jimmy and I’m a self-taught musician. As a result, I have a > non-theoretical approach to learining. I know that there are sure > benefits to a solid, thoretical perspective, but I just wanted to play > & have fun. That’s why I created FunkyChops. > Right now (5/22/03), I’m offering three items… each is less than $20 > and you can even download them now: > 1) QuickBeat.com Human Drummer – for all musicians > 2) SuperChords.com Creative Instruction – for guitarists > 3) FunkyChops.com 101 Slap Bass Riffs – for bass players > QUICKBEAT HUMAN DRUMMER > Everyone knows that playing with a drummer is one of the fastest ways > to develop your jamming & playing skills. Play along with a mechanical > drum machine and you’ll sound like a robot. The Human Drummer is the > next-best thing to a live person. http://www.quickbeat.com > SUPERCHORDS GUITAR > Create a song before even learing the chords. How? The SuperChords > instruction method helps inspre creativity and develops your > "ear-trained" abilities. http://www.superchords.com > FUNKYCHOPS SLAP BASS > I created this so people could play/learn slap bass riffs without > theory. It’s kind of like having a friend who plays slap bass. He/she > play a riff, and you say "Cool! Can you play that again slower?" Sure! > The FunkyChops video plays the riff slower and you learn it by > imitating. FunkyChops forces you to develop your "ear-training" > abilities. Arguably, good ear-trained hearing abilities is the most > valuable asset as a musician. You have to "hear well" to be creative > in what notes you do or don’t play. So, I fully believe that hearing > ability is directly related to your playing ability potential. > Beginning bass players, this is my tip for you: develop your > "ear-playing" abilities. Bass pros, I’m sure you’ll agree through the > wisdom of your experience that this is true… maybe you don’t. Please > reply to this post and let me know what you think.CD-ROM or INSTANT > download at http://www.funkychops.com > Anyway, I’m just an honest artist (painter, drummer, bassist, etc.) > trying to make some money with my creative abilities. As a fellow > musician, I do not want to rip-off other musicians. I think you may > find FunkChops to be cool. Thanks for you time. Thanks for supporting > a non-corporate product made in the USA. > Jimmy Lee > Well Jimmy Lee,…. > There is a DIFFERENCE between Jamming Skills, and PLAYING Skills!!!!! > Your teaching aids may apply to PLAYING skills, but with regard to > improved Jamming skills, that is a very different matter. > As long as your teaching aids embraces the self-taught concept, for the > user of your products, only the principles can be stated, and not > practiced without the band setting. > Many knowledgeable players, even with years of playing experience, can > NOT jam if their lives depended on it. > Social skills are not learned along on a deserted island by sitting with > a learning CD that may address such. > However, I have a very bad taste in my mouth from all the SHORTCUT > methods around us today.  A short cut to this, and a shortcut to that. > So, show me the benefits from using these Shortcut Methods in MUSIC. > I saw an old black and white video clip of the Rolling Stones looking > like they were still in high school playing REAL music.  Show me the > same, with today’s generation of musicians.  At least the knew the > correct usage of musical form, and structure.  They had an idea of what > MUSIC really is, what it MEANS to the average non playing music > LISTENER, and WHY they enjoy the music. > If this UNDERSTANDING is NOT made crystal clear in your teaching aids, > then there is NO hope for a better world of MUSIC.  The world of MUSIC > will remain only for the 12-18 year olds that the Music Industry has for > a musical targeted market, with the 24-34 year olds as the signed > musical stars of a so-called music culture. > The music LISTENING world is no longer interest in the music of only the > young stars paraded in front of us as the perfect music stars that > TECHNOLOGY can give us.  From the computer generated music software, to > the software that makes no talents perfect in the studio, to the > technology that makes the glitz and dazzle of the concert stage as an > exercise in technology, give me back the days of that old Rolling Stones > clip any day. > To watch and listen to the old Stone clip, it was ALL about the MUSIC > that the non playing LISTENER enjoyed. > Now, it’s not about MUSIC, because the MUSIC is lacking something, and > THAT comes from the musicians making it. > Therefore, the NEED to make up for this something that is lacking, > requires the over use of the technology to Polish a Turd, MAKE it a > selling product to a non playing market that is no longer interested in > Polished Turds. > So, here is my question, in the world of shortcuts, how is your teaching > aids going to put REAL music back on the table, for the starved non > playing music LISTENER to come and taste from the table. > What menu are you serving up for the musician, to feed a disinterested > music culture of ALL ages today. > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, >        Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

You, have, made, yourself, an, example, of, bad, writing, and, sentence, structure. Take, a, remedial, English, class.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <snip of *twang* don’t get> > I assume you forgot to post whatever it was I said. > But.. that’s ok. I’ll check the other one. > I still have no idea what you’re talking about. > Twang! > You have made yourself, the example of what I’m talking about. > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, >        Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

> The following is true of this thread: > 1. The Colemans probably have a point … likely, more than one. > 2. Rich probably has point … likely more than one.

I could almost find one or two. but then they just got.. confusing. > 3. Rich was unable to make his point (or points). His attempts to do so > sounded more like the rambling discussions of chemically altered brains > dueling it out late at night. If you’ve ever participated in one of those > pseudo-philosophical meanderings (example: "God is all powerful; as such, > can He create a rock that even He can’t lift") after a few six packs (or > whatever), Rich’s style should be familiar to you. The main thrust of all > arguments seem to be "the past is good, the present is bad".

He seemed to be complaining about teaching methods.. but I never could figure out what he was complaining about in that regard. Apparently, he thinks there’s a problem with shortcuts. I suppose there are, of course, if abused. Anything else, > especially the "once you become a player, you cannot understand/relate to > the non-player" is simply babbling at best (of the latter, I only refer to > his ability to argue the point, not the point itself. I cannot argue the > point because it is too incoherent to be arguable).

I think I’ll put up your last line again. I cannot argue the > point because it is too incoherent to be arguable). > 4. Because of Item # 3, the Colemans should have gracefully avoided any > attempt at rebuttal, well knowing that a reply would be no more coherent > than the original post from Rich.

Once in the fray I thought it better to at least be courteous enough to reply. But yeah. I had a feeling it was going nowhere. > 5. Mike C. definitely has a point, which probably contributed to Item # 3. > The over-use / misuse of capitalization and exclamation points makes Rich > appear to be somewhat psychotic.

I can understand his desire to emphasize. But again.. overdone. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 6. The fact that Rich has an opinion, but tries to argue it as fact, also > contributed to # 3. > If you visit Rich’s website, you will see that he immerses himself in the > past in almost everything he does, thus accounting for the decidedly, "Today > sucks, The 60s rule", mentality he espouses. He owns what amounts to a > vintage musical gear repair shop where I’m sure an hour doesn’t pass without > "deep" discussions of how Hendrix rules and what it would be like if Jerry > Garcia hadn’t died.  Even the clothing he wears is vintage "flower power" > (check out the hat). Nothing is wrong with any of this; it’s certainly a > legit lifestyle choice. As a matter of fact, I found him to be a very > interesting character based on the website, and would probably enjoy talking > to him. However, I wouldn’t put much weight in any argument, even an > eloquent one, that the past is irrefutably better than the present (this > applies to music or anything else). People from every generation since the > first note of music was played have tried to make that point, and failed > miserably. To suggest otherwise automatically limits credibility, and places > that individual in a category of people who love a time & place rather than > music in general. The music of the 1960s is only better to Rich because > that’s the music associated with all the good times he once had. These are > common feelings, but they don’t prove that new music sucks. His parents > probably told him that Sinatra was better than any of the "long-haired" > stuff he listened to and played in the 1960s and 1970s. Were they right? > Don’t we all just hate it when our parents do it to us, but somehow a lot of > us grow up doing the same thing.

The idea that all the new music sucks just boggles my mind. I love a lot of the new stuff and bands and players. And there’s tons of sixties sensibility in the new music, and outright rip offs, and the works. > I respect the knowledge Rich must have regarding music and musical gear > (amps, guitars, NOS tubes, etc.),

Me, too. but I think he is doing himself a > disservice by believing that music today (or music gear today, or music > lessons today, or kid’s today, or whatever today) are all inherently worse > than those things were in the good ol’ days.

I should find my old Sears guitar and play louie louie on it for an hour and a half maybe it will jog his memory. *L* > Not everything today is Britney Spears and NSync (they have talent, just not > the talent I like), and not everything in the 60s was the Stones (the Stones > are not the best, either, but that’s the example Rich used). I’m almost 41 > years old, and have never been unable to find  good music being produced in > any year since I first bought an album at age 8. Don’t rely on the radio / > TV / media to play it for you or point you to it. Seek it out. It’s there. > And lot’s of it.

Today I jammed with Carl Perkins and The Fabulous Thunderbirds.. for relaxing I put on Evanesssence and some burn my kid did off the internet full of bands I don’t know. great stuff. Twang! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You, have, made, yourself, an, example, of, bad, writing, and, sentence, > structure. Take, a, remedial, English, class.

Response:

The following is true of this thread: 1. The Colemans probably have a point … likely, more than one. 2. Rich probably has point … likely more than one. 3. Rich was unable to make his point (or points). His attempts to do so sounded more like the rambling discussions of chemically altered brains dueling it out late at night. If you’ve ever participated in one of those pseudo-philosophical meanderings (example: "God is all powerful; as such, can He create a rock that even He can’t lift") after a few six packs (or whatever), Rich’s style should be familiar to you. The main thrust of all arguments seem to be "the past is good, the present is bad". Anything else, especially the "once you become a player, you cannot understand/relate to the non-player" is simply babbling at best (of the latter, I only refer to his ability to argue the point, not the point itself. I cannot argue the point because it is too incoherent to be arguable). 4. Because of Item # 3, the Colemans should have gracefully avoided any attempt at rebuttal, well knowing that a reply would be no more coherent than the original post from Rich. 5. Mike C. definitely has a point, which probably contributed to Item # 3. The over-use / misuse of capitalization and exclamation points makes Rich appear to be somewhat psychotic. 6. The fact that Rich has an opinion, but tries to argue it as fact, also contributed to # 3. If you visit Rich’s website, you will see that he immerses himself in the past in almost everything he does, thus accounting for the decidedly, "Today sucks, The 60s rule", mentality he espouses. He owns what amounts to a vintage musical gear repair shop where I’m sure an hour doesn’t pass without "deep" discussions of how Hendrix rules and what it would be like if Jerry Garcia hadn’t died.  Even the clothing he wears is vintage "flower power" (check out the hat). Nothing is wrong with any of this; it’s certainly a legit lifestyle choice. As a matter of fact, I found him to be a very interesting character based on the website, and would probably enjoy talking to him. However, I wouldn’t put much weight in any argument, even an eloquent one, that the past is irrefutably better than the present (this applies to music or anything else). People from every generation since the first note of music was played have tried to make that point, and failed miserably. To suggest otherwise automatically limits credibility, and places that individual in a category of people who love a time & place rather than music in general. The music of the 1960s is only better to Rich because that’s the music associated with all the good times he once had. These are common feelings, but they don’t prove that new music sucks. His parents probably told him that Sinatra was better than any of the "long-haired" stuff he listened to and played in the 1960s and 1970s. Were they right? Don’t we all just hate it when our parents do it to us, but somehow a lot of us grow up doing the same thing. I respect the knowledge Rich must have regarding music and musical gear (amps, guitars, NOS tubes, etc.), but I think he is doing himself a disservice by believing that music today (or music gear today, or music lessons today, or kid’s today, or whatever today) are all inherently worse than those things were in the good ol’ days. Not everything today is Britney Spears and NSync (they have talent, just not the talent I like), and not everything in the 60s was the Stones (the Stones are not the best, either, but that’s the example Rich used). I’m almost 41 years old, and have never been unable to find  good music being produced in any year since I first bought an album at age 8. Don’t rely on the radio / TV / media to play it for you or point you to it. Seek it out. It’s there. And lot’s of it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You, have, made, yourself, an, example, of, bad, writing, and, sentence, > structure. Take, a, remedial, English, class.

Response:

> You, have, made, yourself, an, example, of, bad, writing, and, sentence, > structure. Take, a, remedial, English, class.

Hey Mike, go back to grading your english papers for your english students.  Or, are you lost, and in the wrong news group. When you can talk to me and show me you have some musical or technical chops, maybe I’ll grade you posts accordingly. Till then, find the right news group, and go back to grading you english students homework assignments. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

Hey Rich, I wouldn’ t know if I’ve gotten lost and are in the wrong newsgroup as you feel it necessary to keep crossposting into so many. I’m writing from alt.guitar.beginner, where I tend to offer guidance to people who feel that they need it. As you seem to need some guidance in writing the English language, I thought I’d widen my perspective a bit. If you think you need to show that your dick is bigger by believing that you’re going to "grade" my posts on musical ability, I believe that you’ll find that you’re way over your head, son. However, your grade won’t be understood because you won’t be able to present yourself clearly. You haven’t as of yet, as I can see from your pissing contest with The Colemans, as none of us can get a grasp on what you’re trying to say. Musical ability? Hmmm, did you want to discuss using the Melodic Minor scale over a Bm(Maj7) chord? Maybe the 9th, b3, and 6th tones of the Dorian scale that give the scale it’s flavor? Maybe you’d just like to discuss what you know about the Mixolydian scale? That shouldn’t take too long. You wouldn’t know the difference between a groove and football game. Why not just keep expounding to no one about your understanding of Jamming? Clown.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You, have, made, yourself, an, example, of, bad, writing, and, sentence, > structure. Take, a, remedial, English, class. > Hey Mike, go back to grading your english papers for your english > students.  Or, are you lost, and in the wrong news group. > When you can talk to me and show me you have some musical or technical > chops, maybe I’ll grade you posts accordingly. > Till then, find the right news group, and go back to grading you english > students homework assignments. > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, >        Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

<snip of *twang* don’t get> > I assume you forgot to post whatever it was I said. > But.. that’s ok. I’ll check the other one. > I still have no idea what you’re talking about. > Twang!

You have made yourself, the example of what I’m talking about. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

"give me back the days of that old Rolling Stones clip any day" Right-on, Rich. Phil Farano Ampmedic

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi Musicians! > I want to let everyone know of three FunkyChops.com items made by a > musician…me! > My name is Jimmy and I’m a self-taught musician. As a result, I have a > non-theoretical approach to learining. I know that there are sure > benefits to a solid, thoretical perspective, but I just wanted to play > & have fun. That’s why I created FunkyChops. > Right now (5/22/03), I’m offering three items… each is less than $20 > and you can even download them now: > 1) QuickBeat.com Human Drummer – for all musicians > 2) SuperChords.com Creative Instruction – for guitarists > 3) FunkyChops.com 101 Slap Bass Riffs – for bass players > QUICKBEAT HUMAN DRUMMER > Everyone knows that playing with a drummer is one of the fastest ways > to develop your jamming & playing skills. Play along with a mechanical > drum machine and you’ll sound like a robot. The Human Drummer is the > next-best thing to a live person. http://www.quickbeat.com > SUPERCHORDS GUITAR > Create a song before even learing the chords. How? The SuperChords > instruction method helps inspre creativity and develops your > "ear-trained" abilities. http://www.superchords.com > FUNKYCHOPS SLAP BASS > I created this so people could play/learn slap bass riffs without > theory. It’s kind of like having a friend who plays slap bass. He/she > play a riff, and you say "Cool! Can you play that again slower?" Sure! > The FunkyChops video plays the riff slower and you learn it by > imitating. FunkyChops forces you to develop your "ear-training" > abilities. Arguably, good ear-trained hearing abilities is the most > valuable asset as a musician. You have to "hear well" to be creative > in what notes you do or don’t play. So, I fully believe that hearing > ability is directly related to your playing ability potential. > Beginning bass players, this is my tip for you: develop your > "ear-playing" abilities. Bass pros, I’m sure you’ll agree through the > wisdom of your experience that this is true… maybe you don’t. Please > reply to this post and let me know what you think.CD-ROM or INSTANT > download at http://www.funkychops.com > Anyway, I’m just an honest artist (painter, drummer, bassist, etc.) > trying to make some money with my creative abilities. As a fellow > musician, I do not want to rip-off other musicians. I think you may > find FunkChops to be cool. Thanks for you time. Thanks for supporting > a non-corporate product made in the USA. > Jimmy Lee

Well Jimmy Lee,…. There is a DIFFERENCE between Jamming Skills, and PLAYING Skills!!!!! Your teaching aids may apply to PLAYING skills, but with regard to improved Jamming skills, that is a very different matter. As long as your teaching aids embraces the self-taught concept, for the user of your products, only the principles can be stated, and not practiced without the band setting. Many knowledgeable players, even with years of playing experience, can NOT jam if their lives depended on it. Social skills are not learned along on a deserted island by sitting with a learning CD that may address such. However, I have a very bad taste in my mouth from all the SHORTCUT methods around us today.  A short cut to this, and a shortcut to that. So, show me the benefits from using these Shortcut Methods in MUSIC. I saw an old black and white video clip of the Rolling Stones looking like they were still in high school playing REAL music.  Show me the same, with today’s generation of musicians.  At least the knew the correct usage of musical form, and structure.  They had an idea of what MUSIC really is, what it MEANS to the average non playing music LISTENER, and WHY they enjoy the music. If this UNDERSTANDING is NOT made crystal clear in your teaching aids, then there is NO hope for a better world of MUSIC.  The world of MUSIC will remain only for the 12-18 year olds that the Music Industry has for a musical targeted market, with the 24-34 year olds as the signed musical stars of a so-called music culture. The music LISTENING world is no longer interest in the music of only the young stars paraded in front of us as the perfect music stars that TECHNOLOGY can give us.  From the computer generated music software, to the software that makes no talents perfect in the studio, to the technology that makes the glitz and dazzle of the concert stage as an exercise in technology, give me back the days of that old Rolling Stones clip any day. To watch and listen to the old Stone clip, it was ALL about the MUSIC that the non playing LISTENER enjoyed. Now, it’s not about MUSIC, because the MUSIC is lacking something, and THAT comes from the musicians making it. Therefore, the NEED to make up for this something that is lacking, requires the over use of the technology to Polish a Turd, MAKE it a selling product to a non playing market that is no longer interested in Polished Turds. So, here is my question, in the world of shortcuts, how is your teaching aids going to put REAL music back on the table, for the starved non playing music LISTENER to come and taste from the table. What menu are you serving up for the musician, to feed a disinterested music culture of ALL ages today. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <snip> > > Well Jimmy Lee,…. > > There is a DIFFERENCE between Jamming Skills, and PLAYING Skills!!!!! > I’ll wait and see if you tell me what you mean. > Right now, I don’t know. > Jamming is playing. > Jamming can be ‘let’s all play this song like the record’ or it can be let’s > just try to play some song at least one of us knows.. etc. > > Your teaching aids may apply to PLAYING skills, but with regard to > > improved Jamming skills, that is a very different matter. > I still want to know what you are calling jamming. > > As long as your teaching aids embraces the self-taught concept, for the > > user of your products, only the principles can be stated, and not > > practiced without the band setting. > I simply don’t understand that at all. > > Many knowledgeable players, even with years of playing experience, can > > NOT jam if their lives depended on it. > Um. Well. I’m not sure what you mean, or why you assume this. > I’ve known a lot of players, and I can’t remember any but the beginners who > couldn’t jam to some degree. > > Social skills are not learned along on a deserted island by sitting with > > a learning CD that may address such. > But they can be. Many of them. > And well, too. > > However, I have a very bad taste in my mouth from all the SHORTCUT > > methods around us today.  A short cut to this, and a shortcut to that. > > So, show me the benefits from using these Shortcut Methods in MUSIC. > Well, it depends on the kind of shortcut. Some shortcuts are nothing more > than less work, and in those cases, your objection is agreeable. But some > shortcuts are just that, shorter, faster ways around areas or problems that > can be just the ticket. > A good deal of these shortcuts are not shortcuts at all, they just get > marketed as faster, easier, etc. > It’s impossible to tell, because once again, as with the subject of > ‘jamming’ you haven’t defined what you mean. > > I saw an old black and white video clip of the Rolling Stones looking > > like they were still in high school playing REAL music. > I have  a bunch of old stones stuff.. from teevee in the sixties. > Ed Sullivans show where they played Satisfaction is right over there on the > table. > What I saw was brian fucking up, kieth nervous and upset about it, Mick > trying to ignore it. > A bunch of young people doing a pretty good job, but ‘real’ music? > What the hell is ‘real’ music? > Show me the > > same, with today’s generation of musicians. > I saw Tool with my kid. > dynamite. > Young guys, playing well. Put on a great show. > At least the knew the > > correct usage of musical form, and structure. > Tool has no problem with that, either. > Neither do Evanesense, etc. etc. etc. > Lots of very good stuff out there. >  They had an idea of what > > MUSIC really is, what it MEANS to the average non playing music > > LISTENER, and WHY they enjoy the music. > I just don’t get you at all. > I realize you must be pissed for some reason but why and at what, I don’t > understand. > > If this UNDERSTANDING is NOT made crystal clear in your teaching aids, > > then there is NO hope for a better world of MUSIC. > If I had to PLAY only what the average listener enjoys or express only what > music means to the average listener, I’d blow my fucking brains out. > Not to mention the facts here.. but how do you decide who the average > listener is? > Record sales? Interviews? > Come on. > The world of MUSIC > > will remain only for the 12-18 year olds that the Music Industry has for > > a musical targeted market, with the 24-34 year olds as the signed > > musical stars of a so-called music culture. > Yep. A good part of it, no doubt. > What’d the guy say… > Same as it ever was. > > The music LISTENING world is no longer interest in the music of only the > > young stars paraded in front of us as the perfect music stars that > > TECHNOLOGY can give us.  From the computer generated music software, to > > the software that makes no talents perfect in the studio, to the > > technology that makes the glitz and dazzle of the concert stage as an > > exercise in technology, give me back the days of that old Rolling Stones > > clip any day. > Again. I don’t understand you. > The Stones were no better than, no more musical than the best of what’s out > there now, year for year, pound for pound. > I don’t like brittney either, and there’s plenty of music that fits your > description I’m sure I’ll never, hopefully, even be aware of. > But basically, I feel the same now as I did in the sixties about all of > this. > I’ll never understand the pop shit, the factory produced music, the crap of > it.. but I know it’s always been that way. > For any three tunes on the top 40 that I think are good, I can show you 30 > that make me wonder why anyone would listen to it twice. > The percentage of dreck hasn’t changed since Frankie and Annette and Fabian > had hits. > > To watch and listen to the old Stone clip, it was ALL about the MUSIC > > that the non playing LISTENER enjoyed. > I dunno. I don’t even know how you could prove or disporve that at all. > > Now, it’s not about MUSIC, because the MUSIC is lacking something, and > > THAT comes from the musicians making it. > Sure. > > Therefore, the NEED to make up for this something that is lacking, > > requires the over use of the technology to Polish a Turd, MAKE it a > > selling product to a non playing market that is no longer interested in > > Polished Turds. > You’re calling for an awakening of both musicians and listeners. > You want them to wake up and be who you think they should be. > Maybe you’re even right, and they should. > But don’t kid yourself. Those polished turds are selling quite well. > And it’s polished turds that buy it. > I know, you dont want to hear this. > You seem to want to put the listener on that same false altar that people > use for ‘the people’, the ‘fans’, the ‘public’, etc. > Take a look around. > One would think that phony bullshit would just disappear at some point. > You know.. the Beatles come along and suddenly the cute guy with good A&R > would be spotted. > Suddenly a higher standard would come into effect. > But look.. that didn’t happen. > You did have forty beatle copy bands though. > instead of one cute guy, the poor music industry had to go find four. > and all these years later, it got reduced to what.. same old same old. they > don’t even have to play now. they just lip synch. they don’t write. they > dont’ really sing. they do steps, but don’t dance. > > So, here is my question, in the world of shortcuts, how is your teaching > > aids going to put REAL music back on the table, for the starved non > > playing music LISTENER to come and taste from the table. > Shortcuts in teaching methods are time honored. > Every good teacher has shortcuts. > Every good method attempts to allow a student to achieve quickly, and and > that doesn’t mean just miss a lot of the lesson, either. > Nobodys lesson ever produced a musician, to start with. > And certainly, no shortcut ever impeded one for long, and certainly not in > the deep manner you suggest. > > What menu are you serving up for the musician, to feed a disinterested > > music culture of ALL ages today. > You really haven’t said anything here, Rich. > I’m sorry. > But of all the things you might have said, presenting some noble listener > was the goofiest. > Most of the listeners out there have no taste at all. > the charts tell you that. > If you want to bitch about what’s wrong in music, the last place I’d start > is with some guy selling some lessons, that may very well be just the ticket > for someone. > Bitch about the stupid assed nazi radio stations and thier greedy > controlling stifling programming. > Bitch about the constant production of yet another pop diva who whoa eee oo > eeee yay yays here way through totally forgetable dance tunes one after the > other. > Bitch about MTVs major effort in music.. that of tearing it to shreds. > Bitch about all those men and women of talent who sold out for a decent > concert sponsor, or to reach a ‘better demographic’. > But lessons? Shortcuts in lessons? > come on. that accounts little for the crappiness of the music business. > This guy has developed some ideas about teaching people how to play.. and > his focus is not his weakpoint.. IF the lessons do a good job. > Most of the lessons I run into mention shortcuts, etc. > I think you’ve gone way overboard. > Twang! > All this is spoken by someone who has not been there done that through > the years, who has learned to hold an audiance in front of the stage.

 I beg your fucking pardon? > If you can’t see the difference between Woodstock 69 and Woodstock 99, > than I can understand where you are coming from.

Mind telling me what that means? > Interest in live music by ALL ages has disappeared.  MUSIC is NOT only

I don’t see this. Are you talking about ALL live music or what? > Where are the musicians who can without speaking a word, from the stage > JAM, creating music on the fly as if it had been rehearsed!!!!!!!

They’re out there.  Go look. Is there a market for that? > Musical sensibilities, and sonic pleasentries are not learned from the > lesson book, or the CD of today.

Well. No. They are. Partly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just learning to play notes, does not give

… read more »

Response:

<snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well Jimmy Lee,…. > There is a DIFFERENCE between Jamming Skills, and PLAYING Skills!!!!! > I’ll wait and see if you tell me what you mean. > Right now, I don’t know. > Jamming is playing. > Jamming can be ‘let’s all play this song like the record’ or it can be let’s > just try to play some song at least one of us knows.. etc. > Your teaching aids may apply to PLAYING skills, but with regard to > improved Jamming skills, that is a very different matter. > I still want to know what you are calling jamming. > As long as your teaching aids embraces the self-taught concept, for the > user of your products, only the principles can be stated, and not > practiced without the band setting. > I simply don’t understand that at all. > Many knowledgeable players, even with years of playing experience, can > NOT jam if their lives depended on it. > Um. Well. I’m not sure what you mean, or why you assume this. > I’ve known a lot of players, and I can’t remember any but the beginners who > couldn’t jam to some degree. > Social skills are not learned along on a deserted island by sitting with > a learning CD that may address such. > But they can be. Many of them. > And well, too. > However, I have a very bad taste in my mouth from all the SHORTCUT > methods around us today.  A short cut to this, and a shortcut to that. > So, show me the benefits from using these Shortcut Methods in MUSIC. > Well, it depends on the kind of shortcut. Some shortcuts are nothing more > than less work, and in those cases, your objection is agreeable. But some > shortcuts are just that, shorter, faster ways around areas or problems that > can be just the ticket. > A good deal of these shortcuts are not shortcuts at all, they just get > marketed as faster, easier, etc. > It’s impossible to tell, because once again, as with the subject of > ‘jamming’ you haven’t defined what you mean. > I saw an old black and white video clip of the Rolling Stones looking > like they were still in high school playing REAL music. > I have  a bunch of old stones stuff.. from teevee in the sixties. > Ed Sullivans show where they played Satisfaction is right over there on the > table. > What I saw was brian fucking up, kieth nervous and upset about it, Mick > trying to ignore it. > A bunch of young people doing a pretty good job, but ‘real’ music? > What the hell is ‘real’ music? > Show me the > same, with today’s generation of musicians. > I saw Tool with my kid. > dynamite. > Young guys, playing well. Put on a great show. > At least the knew the > correct usage of musical form, and structure. > Tool has no problem with that, either. > Neither do Evanesense, etc. etc. etc. > Lots of very good stuff out there. >  They had an idea of what > MUSIC really is, what it MEANS to the average non playing music > LISTENER, and WHY they enjoy the music. > I just don’t get you at all. > I realize you must be pissed for some reason but why and at what, I don’t > understand. > If this UNDERSTANDING is NOT made crystal clear in your teaching aids, > then there is NO hope for a better world of MUSIC. > If I had to PLAY only what the average listener enjoys or express only what > music means to the average listener, I’d blow my fucking brains out. > Not to mention the facts here.. but how do you decide who the average > listener is? > Record sales? Interviews? > Come on. > The world of MUSIC > will remain only for the 12-18 year olds that the Music Industry has for > a musical targeted market, with the 24-34 year olds as the signed > musical stars of a so-called music culture. > Yep. A good part of it, no doubt. > What’d the guy say… > Same as it ever was. > The music LISTENING world is no longer interest in the music of only the > young stars paraded in front of us as the perfect music stars that > TECHNOLOGY can give us.  From the computer generated music software, to > the software that makes no talents perfect in the studio, to the > technology that makes the glitz and dazzle of the concert stage as an > exercise in technology, give me back the days of that old Rolling Stones > clip any day. > Again. I don’t understand you. > The Stones were no better than, no more musical than the best of what’s out > there now, year for year, pound for pound. > I don’t like brittney either, and there’s plenty of music that fits your > description I’m sure I’ll never, hopefully, even be aware of. > But basically, I feel the same now as I did in the sixties about all of > this. > I’ll never understand the pop shit, the factory produced music, the crap of > it.. but I know it’s always been that way. > For any three tunes on the top 40 that I think are good, I can show you 30 > that make me wonder why anyone would listen to it twice. > The percentage of dreck hasn’t changed since Frankie and Annette and Fabian > had hits. > To watch and listen to the old Stone clip, it was ALL about the MUSIC > that the non playing LISTENER enjoyed. > I dunno. I don’t even know how you could prove or disporve that at all. > Now, it’s not about MUSIC, because the MUSIC is lacking something, and > THAT comes from the musicians making it. > Sure. > Therefore, the NEED to make up for this something that is lacking, > requires the over use of the technology to Polish a Turd, MAKE it a > selling product to a non playing market that is no longer interested in > Polished Turds. > You’re calling for an awakening of both musicians and listeners. > You want them to wake up and be who you think they should be. > Maybe you’re even right, and they should. > But don’t kid yourself. Those polished turds are selling quite well. > And it’s polished turds that buy it. > I know, you dont want to hear this. > You seem to want to put the listener on that same false altar that people > use for ‘the people’, the ‘fans’, the ‘public’, etc. > Take a look around. > One would think that phony bullshit would just disappear at some point. > You know.. the Beatles come along and suddenly the cute guy with good A&R > would be spotted. > Suddenly a higher standard would come into effect. > But look.. that didn’t happen. > You did have forty beatle copy bands though. > instead of one cute guy, the poor music industry had to go find four. > and all these years later, it got reduced to what.. same old same old. they > don’t even have to play now. they just lip synch. they don’t write. they > dont’ really sing. they do steps, but don’t dance. > So, here is my question, in the world of shortcuts, how is your teaching > aids going to put REAL music back on the table, for the starved non > playing music LISTENER to come and taste from the table. > Shortcuts in teaching methods are time honored. > Every good teacher has shortcuts. > Every good method attempts to allow a student to achieve quickly, and and > that doesn’t mean just miss a lot of the lesson, either. > Nobodys lesson ever produced a musician, to start with. > And certainly, no shortcut ever impeded one for long, and certainly not in > the deep manner you suggest. > What menu are you serving up for the musician, to feed a disinterested > music culture of ALL ages today. > You really haven’t said anything here, Rich. > I’m sorry. > But of all the things you might have said, presenting some noble listener > was the goofiest. > Most of the listeners out there have no taste at all. > the charts tell you that. > If you want to bitch about what’s wrong in music, the last place I’d start > is with some guy selling some lessons, that may very well be just the ticket > for someone. > Bitch about the stupid assed nazi radio stations and thier greedy > controlling stifling programming. > Bitch about the constant production of yet another pop diva who whoa eee oo > eeee yay yays here way through totally forgetable dance tunes one after the > other. > Bitch about MTVs major effort in music.. that of tearing it to shreds. > Bitch about all those men and women of talent who sold out for a decent > concert sponsor, or to reach a ‘better demographic’. > But lessons? Shortcuts in lessons? > come on. that accounts little for the crappiness of the music business. > This guy has developed some ideas about teaching people how to play.. and > his focus is not his weakpoint.. IF the lessons do a good job. > Most of the lessons I run into mention shortcuts, etc. > I think you’ve gone way overboard. > Twang!

All this is spoken by someone who has not been there done that through the years, who has learned to hold an audiance in front of the stage. If you can’t see the difference between Woodstock 69 and Woodstock 99, then I can understand where you are coming from. Just look at what was left in the wake of both.  People came for the MUSIC in 69, and left a mile stone in our music culture.  In 99, people came for the event, not the music.   If the MUSIC was an equal to the first Woodstock, Woodstock 99 would still be on our lips today for GREAT music that was performed over the groups that played there in 69!!!!!!! Well, THAT, is not how thing went.  Was it. <thinking> Interest in live music by ALL ages has disappeared.  MUSIC is NOT only Where are the musicians who can without speaking a word, walk up on the stage and JAM, creating music on the fly, as if it had been rehearsed!!!!!!!   You can’t have a musical conversation with strangers on a stage before a room full of people if you don’t know the language, and are well rounded in the many topics, that would make for interesting LISTENING!!!!!!! Jamming is no different than sitting with a group of people in conversation.  It can vary from that of a bunch of drunks sitting at a bar, people eating at wedding reception, to a group of intelectuals talking in … read more »

Response:

<snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well Jimmy Lee,…. > There is a DIFFERENCE between Jamming Skills, and PLAYING Skills!!!!! > I’ll wait and see if you tell me what you mean. > Right now, I don’t know. > Jamming is playing. > Jamming can be ‘let’s all play this song like the record’ or it can be let’s > just try to play some song at least one of us knows.. etc. > Your teaching aids may apply to PLAYING skills, but with regard to > improved Jamming skills, that is a very different matter. > I still want to know what you are calling jamming. > As long as your teaching aids embraces the self-taught concept, for the > user of your products, only the principles can be stated, and not > practiced without the band setting. > I simply don’t understand that at all. > Many knowledgeable players, even with years of playing experience, can > NOT jam if their lives depended on it. > Um. Well. I’m not sure what you mean, or why you assume this. > I’ve known a lot of players, and I can’t remember any but the beginners who > couldn’t jam to some degree. > Social skills are not learned along on a deserted island by sitting with > a learning CD that may address such. > But they can be. Many of them. > And well, too. > However, I have a very bad taste in my mouth from all the SHORTCUT > methods around us today.  A short cut to this, and a shortcut to that. > So, show me the benefits from using these Shortcut Methods in MUSIC. > Well, it depends on the kind of shortcut. Some shortcuts are nothing more > than less work, and in those cases, your objection is agreeable. But some > shortcuts are just that, shorter, faster ways around areas or problems that > can be just the ticket. > A good deal of these shortcuts are not shortcuts at all, they just get > marketed as faster, easier, etc. > It’s impossible to tell, because once again, as with the subject of > ‘jamming’ you haven’t defined what you mean. > I saw an old black and white video clip of the Rolling Stones looking > like they were still in high school playing REAL music. > I have  a bunch of old stones stuff.. from teevee in the sixties. > Ed Sullivans show where they played Satisfaction is right over there on the > table. > What I saw was brian fucking up, kieth nervous and upset about it, Mick > trying to ignore it. > A bunch of young people doing a pretty good job, but ‘real’ music? > What the hell is ‘real’ music? > Show me the > same, with today’s generation of musicians. > I saw Tool with my kid. > dynamite. > Young guys, playing well. Put on a great show. > At least the knew the > correct usage of musical form, and structure. > Tool has no problem with that, either. > Neither do Evanesense, etc. etc. etc. > Lots of very good stuff out there. >  They had an idea of what > MUSIC really is, what it MEANS to the average non playing music > LISTENER, and WHY they enjoy the music. > I just don’t get you at all. > I realize you must be pissed for some reason but why and at what, I don’t > understand. > If this UNDERSTANDING is NOT made crystal clear in your teaching aids, > then there is NO hope for a better world of MUSIC. > If I had to PLAY only what the average listener enjoys or express only what > music means to the average listener, I’d blow my fucking brains out. > Not to mention the facts here.. but how do you decide who the average > listener is? > Record sales? Interviews? > Come on. > The world of MUSIC > will remain only for the 12-18 year olds that the Music Industry has for > a musical targeted market, with the 24-34 year olds as the signed > musical stars of a so-called music culture. > Yep. A good part of it, no doubt. > What’d the guy say… > Same as it ever was. > The music LISTENING world is no longer interest in the music of only the > young stars paraded in front of us as the perfect music stars that > TECHNOLOGY can give us.  From the computer generated music software, to > the software that makes no talents perfect in the studio, to the > technology that makes the glitz and dazzle of the concert stage as an > exercise in technology, give me back the days of that old Rolling Stones > clip any day. > Again. I don’t understand you. > The Stones were no better than, no more musical than the best of what’s out > there now, year for year, pound for pound. > I don’t like brittney either, and there’s plenty of music that fits your > description I’m sure I’ll never, hopefully, even be aware of. > But basically, I feel the same now as I did in the sixties about all of > this. > I’ll never understand the pop shit, the factory produced music, the crap of > it.. but I know it’s always been that way. > For any three tunes on the top 40 that I think are good, I can show you 30 > that make me wonder why anyone would listen to it twice. > The percentage of dreck hasn’t changed since Frankie and Annette and Fabian > had hits. > To watch and listen to the old Stone clip, it was ALL about the MUSIC > that the non playing LISTENER enjoyed. > I dunno. I don’t even know how you could prove or disporve that at all. > Now, it’s not about MUSIC, because the MUSIC is lacking something, and > THAT comes from the musicians making it. > Sure. > Therefore, the NEED to make up for this something that is lacking, > requires the over use of the technology to Polish a Turd, MAKE it a > selling product to a non playing market that is no longer interested in > Polished Turds. > You’re calling for an awakening of both musicians and listeners. > You want them to wake up and be who you think they should be. > Maybe you’re even right, and they should. > But don’t kid yourself. Those polished turds are selling quite well. > And it’s polished turds that buy it. > I know, you dont want to hear this. > You seem to want to put the listener on that same false altar that people > use for ‘the people’, the ‘fans’, the ‘public’, etc. > Take a look around. > One would think that phony bullshit would just disappear at some point. > You know.. the Beatles come along and suddenly the cute guy with good A&R > would be spotted. > Suddenly a higher standard would come into effect. > But look.. that didn’t happen. > You did have forty beatle copy bands though. > instead of one cute guy, the poor music industry had to go find four. > and all these years later, it got reduced to what.. same old same old. they > don’t even have to play now. they just lip synch. they don’t write. they > dont’ really sing. they do steps, but don’t dance. > So, here is my question, in the world of shortcuts, how is your teaching > aids going to put REAL music back on the table, for the starved non > playing music LISTENER to come and taste from the table. > Shortcuts in teaching methods are time honored. > Every good teacher has shortcuts. > Every good method attempts to allow a student to achieve quickly, and and > that doesn’t mean just miss a lot of the lesson, either. > Nobodys lesson ever produced a musician, to start with. > And certainly, no shortcut ever impeded one for long, and certainly not in > the deep manner you suggest. > What menu are you serving up for the musician, to feed a disinterested > music culture of ALL ages today. > You really haven’t said anything here, Rich. > I’m sorry. > But of all the things you might have said, presenting some noble listener > was the goofiest. > Most of the listeners out there have no taste at all. > the charts tell you that. > If you want to bitch about what’s wrong in music, the last place I’d start > is with some guy selling some lessons, that may very well be just the ticket > for someone. > Bitch about the stupid assed nazi radio stations and thier greedy > controlling stifling programming. > Bitch about the constant production of yet another pop diva who whoa eee oo > eeee yay yays here way through totally forgetable dance tunes one after the > other. > Bitch about MTVs major effort in music.. that of tearing it to shreds. > Bitch about all those men and women of talent who sold out for a decent > concert sponsor, or to reach a ‘better demographic’. > But lessons? Shortcuts in lessons? > come on. that accounts little for the crappiness of the music business. > This guy has developed some ideas about teaching people how to play.. and > his focus is not his weakpoint.. IF the lessons do a good job. > Most of the lessons I run into mention shortcuts, etc. > I think you’ve gone way overboard. > Twang!

All this is spoken by someone who has not been there done that through the years, who has learned to hold an audiance in front of the stage. If you can’t see the difference between Woodstock 69 and Woodstock 99, than I can understand where you are coming from. Interest in live music by ALL ages has disappeared.  MUSIC is NOT only Where are the musicians who can without speaking a word, from the stage JAM, creating music on the fly as if it had been rehearsed!!!!!!! Musical sensibilities, and sonic pleasentries are not learned from the lesson book, or the CD of today. Just learning to play notes, does not give the knowledge to write great songs.  That comes years down the road with experience on the stage in front of the audiance. When you have the crowd coming to the standing in line around the block, packed to standing room only in front of the stage, and have a clue why that happened, then you will know about what in music the non playing music listener enjoys and feeds on when LISTENING to music. Everyone came into the world EQUAL and normal.   Well, that is till you were first heard, and was attracted by the SOUND of music.  It was FIRST, The SOUND!!!!! You still had no idea what the hell this music stuff was all about yet. But, it was that SONIC Pleasantry … read more »

Response:

Swack, Speaking of Spam, check here for the 5/22/03 strip. http://www.zippythepinhead.com/ You’ll enjoy it.  Won’t be there until Friday. BTW, was it you who posted some clips, maybe last week.  Liked ‘em a lot. Great playing. Phil

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yuck! Taste Like Spam…. > Hi Musicians! > I want to let everyone know of three FunkyChops.com items made by a > musician…me! > My name is Jimmy and I’m a self-taught musician. As a result, I have a > non-theoretical approach to learining. I know that there are sure > benefits to a solid, thoretical perspective, but I just wanted to play > & have fun. That’s why I created FunkyChops. > Right now (5/22/03), I’m offering three items… each is less than $20 > and you can even download them now: > 1) QuickBeat.com Human Drummer – for all musicians > 2) SuperChords.com Creative Instruction – for guitarists > 3) FunkyChops.com 101 Slap Bass Riffs – for bass players > QUICKBEAT HUMAN DRUMMER > Everyone knows that playing with a drummer is one of the fastest ways > to develop your jamming & playing skills. Play along with a mechanical > drum machine and you’ll sound like a robot. The Human Drummer is the > next-best thing to a live person. http://www.quickbeat.com > SUPERCHORDS GUITAR > Create a song before even learing the chords. How? The SuperChords > instruction method helps inspre creativity and develops your > "ear-trained" abilities. http://www.superchords.com > FUNKYCHOPS SLAP BASS > I created this so people could play/learn slap bass riffs without > theory. It’s kind of like having a friend who plays slap bass. He/she > play a riff, and you say "Cool! Can you play that again slower?" Sure! > The FunkyChops video plays the riff slower and you learn it by > imitating. FunkyChops forces you to develop your "ear-training" > abilities. Arguably, good ear-trained hearing abilities is the most > valuable asset as a musician. You have to "hear well" to be creative > in what notes you do or don’t play. So, I fully believe that hearing > ability is directly related to your playing ability potential. > Beginning bass players, this is my tip for you: develop your > "ear-playing" abilities. Bass pros, I’m sure you’ll agree through the > wisdom of your experience that this is true… maybe you don’t. Please > reply to this post and let me know what you think.CD-ROM or INSTANT > download at http://www.funkychops.com > Anyway, I’m just an honest artist (painter, drummer, bassist, etc.) > trying to make some money with my creative abilities. As a fellow > musician, I do not want to rip-off other musicians. I think you may > find FunkChops to be cool. Thanks for you time. Thanks for supporting > a non-corporate product made in the USA. > Jimmy Lee

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Musicians! > I want to let everyone know of three FunkyChops.com items made by a > musician…me! > My name is Jimmy and I’m a self-taught musician. As a result, I have a > non-theoretical approach to learining. I know that there are sure > benefits to a solid, thoretical perspective, but I just wanted to play > & have fun. That’s why I created FunkyChops. > Right now (5/22/03), I’m offering three items… each is less than $20 > and you can even download them now: > 1) QuickBeat.com Human Drummer – for all musicians > 2) SuperChords.com Creative Instruction – for guitarists > 3) FunkyChops.com 101 Slap Bass Riffs – for bass players > QUICKBEAT HUMAN DRUMMER > Everyone knows that playing with a drummer is one of the fastest ways > to develop your jamming & playing skills. Play along with a mechanical > drum machine and you’ll sound like a robot. The Human Drummer is the > next-best thing to a live person. http://www.quickbeat.com > SUPERCHORDS GUITAR > Create a song before even learing the chords. How? The SuperChords > instruction method helps inspre creativity and develops your > "ear-trained" abilities. http://www.superchords.com > FUNKYCHOPS SLAP BASS > I created this so people could play/learn slap bass riffs without > theory. It’s kind of like having a friend who plays slap bass. He/she > play a riff, and you say "Cool! Can you play that again slower?" Sure! > The FunkyChops video plays the riff slower and you learn it by > imitating. FunkyChops forces you to develop your "ear-training" > abilities. Arguably, good ear-trained hearing abilities is the most > valuable asset as a musician. You have to "hear well" to be creative > in what notes you do or don’t play. So, I fully believe that hearing > ability is directly related to your playing ability potential. > Beginning bass players, this is my tip for you: develop your > "ear-playing" abilities. Bass pros, I’m sure you’ll agree through the > wisdom of your experience that this is true… maybe you don’t. Please > reply to this post and let me know what you think.CD-ROM or INSTANT > download at http://www.funkychops.com > Anyway, I’m just an honest artist (painter, drummer, bassist, etc.) > trying to make some money with my creative abilities. As a fellow > musician, I do not want to rip-off other musicians. I think you may > find FunkChops to be cool. Thanks for you time. Thanks for supporting > a non-corporate product made in the USA. > Jimmy Lee > Well Jimmy Lee,…. > There is a DIFFERENCE between Jamming Skills, and PLAYING Skills!!!!!

I’ll wait and see if you tell me what you mean. Right now, I don’t know. Jamming is playing. Jamming can be ‘let’s all play this song like the record’ or it can be let’s just try to play some song at least one of us knows.. etc. > Your teaching aids may apply to PLAYING skills, but with regard to > improved Jamming skills, that is a very different matter.

I still want to know what you are calling jamming. > As long as your teaching aids embraces the self-taught concept, for the > user of your products, only the principles can be stated, and not > practiced without the band setting.

I simply don’t understand that at all. > Many knowledgeable players, even with years of playing experience, can > NOT jam if their lives depended on it.

Um. Well. I’m not sure what you mean, or why you assume this. I’ve known a lot of players, and I can’t remember any but the beginners who couldn’t jam to some degree. > Social skills are not learned along on a deserted island by sitting with > a learning CD that may address such.

But they can be. Many of them. And well, too. > However, I have a very bad taste in my mouth from all the SHORTCUT > methods around us today.  A short cut to this, and a shortcut to that. > So, show me the benefits from using these Shortcut Methods in MUSIC.

Well, it depends on the kind of shortcut. Some shortcuts are nothing more than less work, and in those cases, your objection is agreeable. But some shortcuts are just that, shorter, faster ways around areas or problems that can be just the ticket. A good deal of these shortcuts are not shortcuts at all, they just get marketed as faster, easier, etc.

It’s impossible to tell, because once again, as with the subject of ‘jamming’ you haven’t defined what you mean. > I saw an old black and white video clip of the Rolling Stones looking > like they were still in high school playing REAL music.

I have  a bunch of old stones stuff.. from teevee in the sixties. Ed Sullivans show where they played Satisfaction is right over there on the table. What I saw was brian fucking up, kieth nervous and upset about it, Mick trying to ignore it. A bunch of young people doing a pretty good job, but ‘real’ music? What the hell is ‘real’ music? Show me the > same, with today’s generation of musicians.

I saw Tool with my kid. dynamite. Young guys, playing well. Put on a great show. At least the knew the > correct usage of musical form, and structure.

Tool has no problem with that, either. Neither do Evanesense, etc. etc. etc. Lots of very good stuff out there.  They had an idea of what > MUSIC really is, what it MEANS to the average non playing music > LISTENER, and WHY they enjoy the music.

I just don’t get you at all. I realize you must be pissed for some reason but why and at what, I don’t understand. > If this UNDERSTANDING is NOT made crystal clear in your teaching aids, > then there is NO hope for a better world of MUSIC.

If I had to PLAY only what the average listener enjoys or express only what music means to the average listener, I’d blow my fucking brains out. Not to mention the facts here.. but how do you decide who the average listener is? Record sales? Interviews? Come on. The world of MUSIC > will remain only for the 12-18 year olds that the Music Industry has for > a musical targeted market, with the 24-34 year olds as the signed > musical stars of a so-called music culture.

Yep. A good part of it, no doubt. What’d the guy say… Same as it ever was. > The music LISTENING world is no longer interest in the music of only the > young stars paraded in front of us as the perfect music stars that > TECHNOLOGY can give us.  From the computer generated music software, to > the software that makes no talents perfect in the studio, to the > technology that makes the glitz and dazzle of the concert stage as an > exercise in technology, give me back the days of that old Rolling Stones > clip any day.

Again. I don’t understand you. The Stones were no better than, no more musical than the best of what’s out there now, year for year, pound for pound. I don’t like brittney either, and there’s plenty of music that fits your description I’m sure I’ll never, hopefully, even be aware of. But basically, I feel the same now as I did in the sixties about all of this. I’ll never understand the pop shit, the factory produced music, the crap of it.. but I know it’s always been that way. For any three tunes on the top 40 that I think are good, I can show you 30 that make me wonder why anyone would listen to it twice. The percentage of dreck hasn’t changed since Frankie and Annette and Fabian had hits. > To watch and listen to the old Stone clip, it was ALL about the MUSIC > that the non playing LISTENER enjoyed.

I dunno. I don’t even know how you could prove or disporve that at all. > Now, it’s not about MUSIC, because the MUSIC is lacking something, and > THAT comes from the musicians making it.

Sure. > Therefore, the NEED to make up for this something that is lacking, > requires the over use of the technology to Polish a Turd, MAKE it a > selling product to a non playing market that is no longer interested in > Polished Turds.

You’re calling for an awakening of both musicians and listeners. You want them to wake up and be who you think they should be. Maybe you’re even right, and they should. But don’t kid yourself. Those polished turds are selling quite well. And it’s polished turds that buy it. I know, you dont want to hear this. You seem to want to put the listener on that same false altar that people use for ‘the people’, the ‘fans’, the ‘public’, etc. Take a look around. One would think that phony bullshit would just disappear at some point. You know.. the Beatles come along and suddenly the cute guy with good A&R would be spotted. Suddenly a higher standard would come into effect. But look.. that didn’t happen. You did have forty beatle copy bands though. instead of one cute guy, the poor music industry had to go find four. and all these years later, it got reduced to what.. same old same old. they don’t even have to play now. they just lip synch. they don’t write. they dont’ really sing. they do steps, but don’t dance. > So, here is my question, in the world of shortcuts, how is your teaching > aids going to put REAL music back on the table, for the starved non > playing music LISTENER to come and taste from the table.

Shortcuts in teaching methods are time honored. Every good teacher has shortcuts. Every good method attempts to allow a student to achieve quickly, and and that doesn’t mean just miss a lot of the lesson, either. Nobodys lesson ever produced a musician, to start with. And certainly, no shortcut ever impeded one for long, and certainly not in the deep manner you suggest. > What menu are you serving up for the musician, to feed a disinterested > music culture of ALL ages today.

You really haven’t said anything here, Rich. I’m sorry. But of all the things you might have said, presenting some noble listener was the goofiest. Most of the listeners out there have no taste at all. the charts tell you that. If you want to bitch about what’s wrong in music, the … read more »

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi Musicians! > I want to let everyone know of three FunkyChops.com items made by a > musician…me! > My name is Jimmy and I’m a self-taught musician. As a result, I have a > non-theoretical approach to learining. I know that there are sure > benefits to a solid, thoretical perspective, but I just wanted to play > & have fun. That’s why I created FunkyChops. > Right now (5/22/03), I’m offering three items… each is less than $20 > and you can even download them now: > 1) QuickBeat.com Human Drummer – for all musicians > 2) SuperChords.com Creative Instruction – for guitarists > 3) FunkyChops.com 101 Slap Bass Riffs – for bass players > QUICKBEAT HUMAN DRUMMER > Everyone knows that playing with a drummer is one of the fastest ways > to develop your jamming & playing skills. Play along with a mechanical > drum machine and you’ll sound like a robot. The Human Drummer is the > next-best thing to a live person. http://www.quickbeat.com > SUPERCHORDS GUITAR > Create a song before even learing the chords. How? The SuperChords > instruction method helps inspre creativity and develops your > "ear-trained" abilities. http://www.superchords.com > FUNKYCHOPS SLAP BASS > I created this so people could play/learn slap bass riffs without > theory. It’s kind of like having a friend who plays slap bass. He/she > play a riff, and you say "Cool! Can you play that again slower?" Sure! > The FunkyChops video plays the riff slower and you learn it by > imitating. FunkyChops forces you to develop your "ear-training" > abilities. Arguably, good ear-trained hearing abilities is the most > valuable asset as a musician. You have to "hear well" to be creative > in what notes you do or don’t play. So, I fully believe that hearing > ability is directly related to your playing ability potential. > Beginning bass players, this is my tip for you: develop your > "ear-playing" abilities. Bass pros, I’m sure you’ll agree through the > wisdom of your experience that this is true… maybe you don’t. Please > reply to this post and let me know what you think.CD-ROM or INSTANT > download at http://www.funkychops.com > Anyway, I’m just an honest artist (painter, drummer, bassist, etc.) > trying to make some money with my creative abilities. As a fellow > musician, I do not want to rip-off other musicians. I think you may > find FunkChops to be cool. Thanks for you time. Thanks for supporting > a non-corporate product made in the USA. > Jimmy Lee

Well Jimmy Lee,…. There is a DIFFERENCE between Jamming Skills, and PLAYING Skills!!!!! Your teaching aids may apply to PLAYING skills, but with regard to improved Jamming skills, that is a very different matter.   As long as your teaching aids embraces the self-taught concept, for the user of your products, only the principles can be stated, and not practiced without the band setting. Many knowledgeable players, even with years of playing experience, can NOT jam if their lives depended on it. Social skills are not learned along on a deserted island by sitting with a learning CD that may address such. However, I have a very bad taste in my mouth from all the SHORTCUT methods around us today.  A short cut to this, and a shortcut to that. So, show me the benefits from using these Shortcut Methods in MUSIC. I saw an old black and white video clip of the Rolling Stones looking like they were still in high school playing REAL music.  Show me the same, with today’s generation of musicians.  At least the knew the correct usage of musical form, and structure.  They had an idea of what MUSIC really is, what it MEANS to the average non playing music LISTENER, and WHY they enjoy the music. If this UNDERSTANDING is NOT made crystal clear in your teaching aids, then there is NO hope for a better world of MUSIC.  The world of MUSIC will remain only for the 12-18 year olds that the Music Industry has for a musical targeted market, with the 24-34 year olds as the signed musical stars of a so-called music culture. The music LISTENING world is no longer interest in the music of only the young stars paraded in front of us as the perfect music stars that TECHNOLOGY can give us.  From the computer generated music software, to the software that makes no talents perfect in the studio, to the technology that makes the glitz and dazzle of the concert stage as an exercise in technology, give me back the days of that old Rolling Stones clip any day. To watch and listen to the old Stone clip, it was ALL about the MUSIC that the non playing LISTENER enjoyed. Now, it’s not about MUSIC, because the MUSIC is lacking something, and THAT comes from the musicians making it.   Therefore, the NEED to make up for this something that is lacking, requires the over use of the technology to Polish a Turd, MAKE it a selling product to a non playing market that is no longer interested in Polished Turds. So, here is my question, in the world of shortcuts, how is your teaching aids going to put REAL music back on the table, for the starved non playing music LISTENER to come and taste from the table. What menu are you serving up for the musician, to feed a disinterested music culture of ALL ages today. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

I guess this would be JamSpam. Kids, don’t try this at home.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Musicians! > I want to let everyone know of three FunkyChops.com items made by a > musician…me! > My name is Jimmy and I’m a self-taught musician. As a result, I have a > non-theoretical approach to learining. I know that there are sure > benefits to a solid, thoretical perspective, but I just wanted to play > & have fun. That’s why I created FunkyChops. > Right now (5/22/03), I’m offering three items… each is less than $20 > and you can even download them now: > 1) QuickBeat.com Human Drummer – for all musicians > 2) SuperChords.com Creative Instruction – for guitarists > 3) FunkyChops.com 101 Slap Bass Riffs – for bass players > QUICKBEAT HUMAN DRUMMER > Everyone knows that playing with a drummer is one of the fastest ways > to develop your jamming & playing skills. Play along with a mechanical > drum machine and you’ll sound like a robot. The Human Drummer is the > next-best thing to a live person. http://www.quickbeat.com > SUPERCHORDS GUITAR > Create a song before even learing the chords. How? The SuperChords > instruction method helps inspre creativity and develops your > "ear-trained" abilities. http://www.superchords.com > FUNKYCHOPS SLAP BASS > I created this so people could play/learn slap bass riffs without > theory. It’s kind of like having a friend who plays slap bass. He/she > play a riff, and you say "Cool! Can you play that again slower?" Sure! > The FunkyChops video plays the riff slower and you learn it by > imitating. FunkyChops forces you to develop your "ear-training" > abilities. Arguably, good ear-trained hearing abilities is the most > valuable asset as a musician. You have to "hear well" to be creative > in what notes you do or don’t play. So, I fully believe that hearing > ability is directly related to your playing ability potential. > Beginning bass players, this is my tip for you: develop your > "ear-playing" abilities. Bass pros, I’m sure you’ll agree through the > wisdom of your experience that this is true… maybe you don’t. Please > reply to this post and let me know what you think.CD-ROM or INSTANT > download at http://www.funkychops.com > Anyway, I’m just an honest artist (painter, drummer, bassist, etc.) > trying to make some money with my creative abilities. As a fellow > musician, I do not want to rip-off other musicians. I think you may > find FunkChops to be cool. Thanks for you time. Thanks for supporting > a non-corporate product made in the USA. > Jimmy Lee

Response:

Yuck! Taste Like Spam….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Musicians! > I want to let everyone know of three FunkyChops.com items made by a > musician…me! > My name is Jimmy and I’m a self-taught musician. As a result, I have a > non-theoretical approach to learining. I know that there are sure > benefits to a solid, thoretical perspective, but I just wanted to play > & have fun. That’s why I created FunkyChops. > Right now (5/22/03), I’m offering three items… each is less than $20 > and you can even download them now: > 1) QuickBeat.com Human Drummer – for all musicians > 2) SuperChords.com Creative Instruction – for guitarists > 3) FunkyChops.com 101 Slap Bass Riffs – for bass players > QUICKBEAT HUMAN DRUMMER > Everyone knows that playing with a drummer is one of the fastest ways > to develop your jamming & playing skills. Play along with a mechanical > drum machine and you’ll sound like a robot. The Human Drummer is the > next-best thing to a live person. http://www.quickbeat.com > SUPERCHORDS GUITAR > Create a song before even learing the chords. How? The SuperChords > instruction method helps inspre creativity and develops your > "ear-trained" abilities. http://www.superchords.com > FUNKYCHOPS SLAP BASS > I created this so people could play/learn slap bass riffs without > theory. It’s kind of like having a friend who plays slap bass. He/she > play a riff, and you say "Cool! Can you play that again slower?" Sure! > The FunkyChops video plays the riff slower and you learn it by > imitating. FunkyChops forces you to develop your "ear-training" > abilities. Arguably, good ear-trained hearing abilities is the most > valuable asset as a musician. You have to "hear well" to be creative > in what notes you do or don’t play. So, I fully believe that hearing > ability is directly related to your playing ability potential. > Beginning bass players, this is my tip for you: develop your > "ear-playing" abilities. Bass pros, I’m sure you’ll agree through the > wisdom of your experience that this is true… maybe you don’t. Please > reply to this post and let me know what you think.CD-ROM or INSTANT > download at http://www.funkychops.com > Anyway, I’m just an honest artist (painter, drummer, bassist, etc.) > trying to make some money with my creative abilities. As a fellow > musician, I do not want to rip-off other musicians. I think you may > find FunkChops to be cool. Thanks for you time. Thanks for supporting > a non-corporate product made in the USA. > Jimmy Lee

Response:

Hi Musicians! I want to let everyone know of three FunkyChops.com items made by a musician…me! My name is Jimmy and I’m a self-taught musician. As a result, I have a non-theoretical approach to learining. I know that there are sure benefits to a solid, thoretical perspective, but I just wanted to play & have fun. That’s why I created FunkyChops. Right now (5/22/03), I’m offering three items… each is less than $20 and you can even download them now: 1) QuickBeat.com Human Drummer – for all musicians 2) SuperChords.com Creative Instruction – for guitarists 3) FunkyChops.com 101 Slap Bass Riffs – for bass players QUICKBEAT HUMAN DRUMMER Everyone knows that playing with a drummer is one of the fastest ways to develop your jamming & playing skills. Play along with a mechanical drum machine and you’ll sound like a robot. The Human Drummer is the next-best thing to a live person. http://www.quickbeat.com SUPERCHORDS GUITAR Create a song before even learing the chords. How? The SuperChords instruction method helps inspre creativity and develops your "ear-trained" abilities. http://www.superchords.com FUNKYCHOPS SLAP BASS I created this so people could play/learn slap bass riffs without theory. It’s kind of like having a friend who plays slap bass. He/she play a riff, and you say "Cool! Can you play that again slower?" Sure! The FunkyChops video plays the riff slower and you learn it by imitating. FunkyChops forces you to develop your "ear-training" abilities. Arguably, good ear-trained hearing abilities is the most valuable asset as a musician. You have to "hear well" to be creative in what notes you do or don’t play. So, I fully believe that hearing ability is directly related to your playing ability potential. Beginning bass players, this is my tip for you: develop your "ear-playing" abilities. Bass pros, I’m sure you’ll agree through the wisdom of your experience that this is true… maybe you don’t. Please reply to this post and let me know what you think.CD-ROM or INSTANT download at http://www.funkychops.com Anyway, I’m just an honest artist (painter, drummer, bassist, etc.) trying to make some money with my creative abilities. As a fellow musician, I do not want to rip-off other musicians. I think you may find FunkChops to be cool. Thanks for you time. Thanks for supporting a non-corporate product made in the USA. Jimmy Lee

Response:

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