How to read sheet music question
Question:
Hi A lot of beginners (me included) look at the tab/notation for a song and it looks really complicated, when infact if you break it down it MAY be only three or four simple parts linked together. Notes about a songs structure helped me in getting started, now I always have a good look through the tab for a song to break it down into smaller parts to learn. Some kind of notes on this and also how many verses / chorus / breaks or bridges etc to play. Information like this could make some of the Tab on the net change from being crappy to semi useful or even great, I see lots of tab with the Intro Verse Chorus Bridge Solo tabbed out seperatly but no indication of how to put them together, beginners need all the help they can get. Andy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi John & Tom > I read standard notation and also find tab useful for fingerings etc. > but the one thing I find very useful that you usually get with > transcriptions in some of the *better* guitar magazines is decent > notes as to how the song is played. > What kind of notes — some of the theory behind the song’s structure? > There’s only so much to be said about a lot of songs, beyond where to > put your fingers and how long to play notes. > Tom > Before you buy.
Response:
> I’m afraid I don’t quite "get it". I don’t understand how the > notation works. Perhaps we need to come up with something a bit less > cluttered.
I just saw the other guy’s post and his version of your notation looks completely different than the one that showed up in Deja and Supernews. Here’s how it looked to me at first: 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . .=20 Even with a fixed pitch font, that is a mess! However, without the "3D’s" and just the equal sign to indicate duration, it makes perfect sense. I might even start doing that when I make tabs. Tom Before you buy.
Response:
> Hi John & Tom > I read standard notation and also find tab useful for fingerings etc. > but the one thing I find very useful that you usually get with > transcriptions in some of the *better* guitar magazines is decent > notes as to how the song is played.
What kind of notes — some of the theory behind the song’s structure? There’s only so much to be said about a lot of songs, beyond where to put your fingers and how long to play notes. Tom Before you buy.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m afraid I don’t quite "get it". I don’t understand how the > notation works. Perhaps we need to come up with something a bit less > cluttered. > I just saw the other guy’s post and his version of your notation looks > completely different than the one that showed up in Deja and Supernews. > Here’s how it looked to me at first: B|- > 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . .=20 > Even with a fixed pitch font, that is a mess! > However, without the "3D’s" and just the equal sign to indicate > duration, it makes perfect sense. I might even start doing that when I > make tabs.
Yeah, bizarre! I can imagine your confusion… Obviously I meant just a "=" (equals) sign. Serves me right for trying to format it in Courier, instead of just saying "read in proportional font". JonR
Response:
Hi John & Tom I read standard notation and also find tab useful for fingerings etc. but the one thing I find very useful that you usually get with transcriptions in some of the *better* guitar magazines is decent notes as to how the song is played. Andy Snipped… > What’s your method for notating duration? Maybe I’ll use it.
If you have a 4/4 bar, with an A major chord lasting a half-note, followed by a half-note rest, how about this (hope this reads in Courier…) 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . The "=" sign seems the best character out of several possibilities. (It’s reminiscent of piano-roll grids.) The bottom line is how I’d show beats and 16th note divisions. Dots could obviously show triplet divisions if necessary. Personally I’d be as happy with "|" or "/" marks instead of the beat numbers, but I can see the advantage of beat counts. I haven’t really used this system much (don’t have much call for it myself), so I’d be interested in any improvements you could suggest, or any problems you can foresee. entioning Melody Asssi… oops). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Tom > Before you buy.
Response:
I’m afraid I don’t quite "get it". I don’t understand how the notation works. Perhaps we need to come up with something a bit less cluttered. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > transmission, like you mentioned. Some other notation needs to be > > > added to the current accepted tab format to cover this aspect. > > There are pretty easy ways of doing this. (I’ve come up with a few > > myself.) I’m surprised not to have seen them used elsewhere. I guess > > most tabbers don’t regard note duration as very important. (It’s > > certainly less important than timing.) >=20 > What’s your method for notating duration? Maybe I’ll use it. >If you have a 4/4 bar, with an A major chord lasting a half-note, = >followed by a half-note rest, how about this (hope this reads in = >Courier…) > 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . .=20 >The "=3D" sign seems the best character out of several possibilities. = >(It’s reminiscent of piano-roll grids.) >The bottom line is how I’d show beats and 16th note divisions. Dots = >could obviously show triplet divisions if necessary. Personally I’d be = >as happy with "|" or "/" marks instead of the beat numbers, but I can = >see the advantage of beat counts. >I haven’t really used this system much (don’t have much call for it = >myself), so I’d be interested in any improvements you could suggest, or = >any problems you can foresee. >entioning Melody Asssi… oops). >=20 > Tom >=20 >=20 > Before you buy. >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> ><HTML><HEAD> ><META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> ><META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR> ><STYLE></STYLE> ></HEAD> ><BODY background=3D"" bgColor=3D#ffffff> >Riley"=20 >transmission, like=20 >you mentioned. Some other notation needs to be<BR>> > > = >added to=20 >the current accepted tab format to cover this aspect.<BR>> = >><BR>> >=20 >There are pretty easy ways of doing this. (I’ve come up with a = >few<BR>> >=20 >myself.) I’m surprised not to have seen them used elsewhere. I = >guess<BR>>=20 >> most tabbers don’t regard note duration as very important. = >(It’s<BR>>=20 >> certainly less important than timing.)<BR>> <BR>> What’s your = >method=20 >for notating duration? Maybe I’ll use it.<BR><BR>If you have a 4/4 = >bar,=20 >with an A major chord lasting a half-note, followed by a half-note rest, = >how=20 >about this (hope this reads in Courier…)<BR><FONT=20 >face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New"></FONT> </DIV> ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier = >ONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT=20 >face=3D"Courier = ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New"> 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . = >. .=20 ></FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New"></FONT> </DIV> ><DIV>The "=3D" sign seems the best character out of several = >possibilities. (It’s=20 >reminiscent of piano-roll grids.)</DIV> ><DIV>The bottom line is how I’d show beats and 16th note divisions. Dots = >could=20 >obviously show triplet divisions if necessary. Personally I’d be as = >happy with=20 >"|" or "/" marks instead of the beat numbers, but I can see the = >advantage of=20 >beat counts.</DIV> ><DIV>I haven’t really used this system much (don’t have much call for it = >myself), so I’d be interested in any improvements you could suggest, or = >any=20 >problems you can foresee.<BR><BR><BR><BR>entioning Melody Asssi…=20 >oops).<BR><BR><BR>><BR><BR> <BR>> Tom<BR>> <BR>> = ><BR>> Sent=20 >buy.</DIV></BODY></HTML>
Response:
> Tab rarely contains timing. Can you play a tabbed guitar solo without > having heard the original? > Nope. Tab *can* contain half the timing info, i.e. telling when to hit > the notes — just by adding a simple "1 a & a 2 a & a …" or > something similar underneath the lines & by dividing them into > measures. I at least go to that much trouble when I make tabs. Simple > lines and numbers is laziness.
Agreed. > However, regarding the other half of the equation, how long to hold the > notes — that’s the part that’s missing due to the limitations of text > transmission, like you mentioned. Some other notation needs to be > added to the current accepted tab format to cover this aspect.
There are pretty easy ways of doing this. (I’ve come up with a few myself.) I’m surprised not to have seen them used elsewhere. I guess most tabbers don’t regard note duration as very important. (It’s certainly less important than timing.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I agree tab can and should contain proper timing info (note beginning > and duration) – and you’re right that most net tab is crap. > Tab’s great advantage is that it is text based, so perfect for > transmission over the net. But it’s text basis is also its drawback > when showing timing, I’ve yet to see a clear and elegant method. I’d > love to see an example of precise and complete tab if you can post > one. (seriously, not beng sarcastic!) > (see above) IMHO, the clearest way to notate timing would be to have > two parallel staves, the top being standard notation (for timing), the > lower staff being tablature (for finger location). There might be > other methods that don’t come to mind, but this is the way that Melody > Assistant does it.
My feeling exactly. That gives maximum info and keeps both sides happy. (snip) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I said "song". I’m fully aware (and said in my original post) "What it > won’t do is > show you precisely how the original artist performed it, or where to > put your fingers on the fretboard." > But there are plenty of rock transcription books that do show you > exactly how the original artist played things, if that’s what you > want. > That’s what I read into the original question and why I was disputing > your statements. (you read it literally, i read it…uh… > "creatively") He was interested in playing the song from a guitarist’s > standpoint, and that’s the info that’s missing from standard notation. > Even with his piano background to show him how to read standard > notation, that won’t help with what isn’t there.
Well, that wasn’t how I read his post. He said he’d "found some old sheet music of songs [he'd] like to play" – he was simply asking how to interpet the chord symbols with regard to the notated melody. He said nothing about playing guitar parts. He wanted (I assumed) to play the written tune. It sounded very like what I used to do (still do), pick up sheet music and play through the melodies and chords (they don’t even have to be guitar songs). I assume I guessed right because he replied with thanks. > ’Course, there is > something to be said about just having the "lines & nos.", then just > listening to the song for the details, but perhaps not for
beginners. Yes. I think tab helps beginners. I also find it useful occasionally > Most pro musicians only need the words, tune and chords. They prefer > to play their own interpretation rather than copy original > arrangements. (If they want more details, they can listen and > transcribe for themselves.) They certainly don’t need tab to show them > where to put their fingers. > Yes, in that case, pros don’t even need standard arrangements – just > the so-called "fake book" arrangements, with only the melody line, > lyrics and chords. But we’re talking about beginners and us non-pros > (me, anyway).
Well, we weren’t to start with. I agree both systems have their advantages, at different times, or for different people, or both. (I’m not a pro, BTW – though I’ve been an amateur for a Very Long Time…) > I agree about the "lame-ass" accompaniments in much sheet music. It > used to piss me off too when I was learning guitar. Still, it wasn’t > tab I missed (working out where to put my fingers was an important > part of learning music), but accurate notation of riffs, etc. > But I would not disagree that tab is more useful to a beginner. Best > is to have both. Notation to show the shape of the tune and the timing > (in the most elegant way possible), and tab for fingering. > Yep, two words — Melody Assistant. (sick of hearing that yet? 
OK, OK, I’ll check it out! (But I was thinking of books and magazines, not software.) > When I first started playing electric, I was more interested in the > rhythm parts, which are also not addressed in standard notation, nor in > much internet tab.
Good point. Even in those note-for-note transcription books, when you see serried ranks of 16th note chords, it looks terrible, until you realise it’s just some guy strumming. In a way, that highlights the nonsense of note-for-note transcriptions, which seem to suggest "you must play them this way" rather than "this is how they did it on the record". It’s easy to get hung up on trying to get a Hendrix or Clapton (or whoever) solo precisely, when they’d probably have had just as much difficulty reading it back as you or I – and they wouldn’t want to play it the same way twice anyway. JonR
Response:
> > > transmission, like you mentioned. Some other notation needs to be > > added to the current accepted tab format to cover this aspect. > There are pretty easy ways of doing this. (I’ve come up with a few > myself.) I’m surprised not to have seen them used elsewhere. I guess > most tabbers don’t regard note duration as very important. (It’s > certainly less important than timing.) > What’s your method for notating duration? Maybe I’ll use it.
If you have a 4/4 bar, with an A major chord lasting a half-note, followed by a half-note rest, how about this (hope this reads in Courier…) 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . The "=" sign seems the best character out of several possibilities. (It’s reminiscent of piano-roll grids.) The bottom line is how I’d show beats and 16th note divisions. Dots could obviously show triplet divisions if necessary. Personally I’d be as happy with "|" or "/" marks instead of the beat numbers, but I can see the advantage of beat counts. I haven’t really used this system much (don’t have much call for it myself), so I’d be interested in any improvements you could suggest, or any problems you can foresee. entioning Melody Asssi… oops). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Tom > Before you buy.
Response:
> > transmission, like you mentioned. Some other notation needs to be > added to the current accepted tab format to cover this aspect. > There are pretty easy ways of doing this. (I’ve come up with a few > myself.) I’m surprised not to have seen them used elsewhere. I guess > most tabbers don’t regard note duration as very important. (It’s > certainly less important than timing.)
What’s your method for notating duration? Maybe I’ll use it. (see, I can do a post without mentioning Melody Asssi… oops). Tom Before you buy.
Response:
> Tab rarely contains timing. Can you play a tabbed guitar solo without > having heard the original?
Nope. Tab *can* contain half the timing info, i.e. telling when to hit the notes — just by adding a simple "1 a & a 2 a & a …" or something similar underneath the lines & by dividing them into measures. I at least go to that much trouble when I make tabs. Simple lines and numbers is laziness. However, regarding the other half of the equation, how long to hold the notes — that’s the part that’s missing due to the limitations of text transmission, like you mentioned. Some other notation needs to be added to the current accepted tab format to cover this aspect. > I agree tab can and should contain proper timing info (note beginning > and duration) – and you’re right that most net tab is crap. > Tab’s great advantage is that it is text based, so perfect for > transmission over the net. But it’s text basis is also its drawback > when showing timing, I’ve yet to see a clear and elegant method. I’d > love to see an example of precise and complete tab if you can post > one. (seriously, not beng sarcastic!)
(see above) IMHO, the clearest way to notate timing would be to have two parallel staves, the top being standard notation (for timing), the lower staff being tablature (for finger location). There might be other methods that don’t come to mind, but this is the way that Melody Assistant does it. Which brings up the other point that text will probably never work for the details. What needs to happen is that everyone in the tab & music groups get together and establish a standard program format (beyond text) for everyone to exchange tabs in. (people would only post links to the tabs, since the file formats will be binary — a no-no for the text groups) Melody Assistant (www.myriad-online.com) would be perfect for this; it’s only $15, and handles standard notation, tablature, and even drum notation(!) equally well. ChordPro seems to be pretty common, but when I tried it, I thought the program sucked for as much as it costs. > I said "song". I’m fully aware (and said in my original post) "What it > won’t do is > show you precisely how the original artist performed it, or where to > put your fingers on the fretboard." > But there are plenty of rock transcription books that do show you > exactly how the original artist played things, if that’s what you > want.
That’s what I read into the original question and why I was disputing your statements. (you read it literally, i read it…uh… "creatively") He was interested in playing the song from a guitarist’s standpoint, and that’s the info that’s missing from standard notation. Even with his piano background to show him how to read standard notation, that won’t help with what isn’t there. ’Course, there is something to be said about just having the "lines & nos.", then just listening to the song for the details, but perhaps not for beginners. > Most pro musicians only need the words, tune and chords. They prefer > to play their own interpretation rather than copy original > arrangements. (If they want more details, they can listen and > transcribe for themselves.) They certainly don’t need tab to show them > where to put their fingers.
Yes, in that case, pros don’t even need standard arrangements – just the so-called "fake book" arrangements, with only the melody line, lyrics and chords. But we’re talking about beginners and us non-pros (me, anyway). > I agree about the "lame-ass" accompaniments in much sheet music. It > used to piss me off too when I was learning guitar. Still, it wasn’t > tab I missed (working out where to put my fingers was an important > part of learning music), but accurate notation of riffs, etc. > But I would not disagree that tab is more useful to a beginner. Best > is to have both. Notation to show the shape of the tune and the timing > (in the most elegant way possible), and tab for fingering.
Yep, two words — Melody Assistant. (sick of hearing that yet? When I first started playing electric, I was more interested in the rhythm parts, which are also not addressed in standard notation, nor in much internet tab. Tom Before you buy.
Response:
Thanks a bunch!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sheet music with chords is usually only a general guide for playing > the song on guitar (unless, of course, the song is meant as a guitar > instrumental). The treble clef is just going to have the melody so > you’ll know how to sing it. Even though it gives you the chord > symbol, you have to come up with a picking/strum pattern on your > own. > Therefore, sheet music is most useful when you’re familiar with the > song but just need a reminder of the chords and lyrics. > Well, not exactly. That describes tab. > In fact, sheet music provides (or is capable of providing) everything > you need to play a song you’ve never heard before. What it won’t do is > show you precisely how the original artist performed it, or where to > put your fingers on the fretboard. > >I have been playing tab since i got my guitar, but found some old > sheet > >music of songs i’d like to play. I can read treble cleff (i play > piano > >as well). The thing is that the diagrams at the top of measures > that > >show the chord don’t seem to correspond to the notes in the melody > line > >below. Are you supposed to use that chord as a base but tweak it > in > >order to play the notes below? Or is the chord just for those who > don’t > >want to play the melody line? Thanks for any help. > Yes to both questions (you can treat it in either way). > Any one bar of melody will be based around the chord shown, and will > contain notes from the chord (usually on the strong beats), but will > also contain passing notes between the chord tones. > So yes, the chord is for rhythm accompaniment rather than an exact > spelling of the tune, but you should be able to hold the chord and > pick the tune out around it, or in between the chord notes. > Usually, in fact (in piano music), the guitar chord will correspond to > what’s in the left hand, and any harmony notes in the right hand. > BTW, guitar sheet music is written an octave higher than piano music. > The note sounding as middle C on piano, written on the ledger line > below treble clef in piano double-stave, is played on 2nd string 1st > fret on guitar and written in the 3rd space up in guitar music. > This may only be relevant if you’re playing with a pianist or singer. > JonR
Response:
>> Therefore, sheet music is most useful when you’re familiar with the > song but just need a reminder of the chords and lyrics. >Well, not exactly. That describes tab.
No, it describes sheet music. Tab tells exactly how to play the guitar part — at least it should; the shitty tabs people seem to want to post on the internet (the majority of them) have nothing but lines and numbers, basically useless. >In fact, sheet music provides (or is capable of providing) everything >you need to play a song you’ve never heard before.
Wrong. Sheet music has NOTHING relating to how the guitar parts were played by the artist the arrangement is based on. You have to come up with your own way of playing it. Sheet music gives only the melody line, and sometimes a lame-ass accompaniment that has little to do with how the artist performed it. Tom
Response:
>> Therefore, sheet music is most useful when you’re familiar with the >> song but just need a reminder of the chords and lyrics. >Well, not exactly. That describes tab. > No, it describes sheet music. Tab tells exactly how to play the > guitar part — at least it should; the shitty tabs people seem to want > to post on the internet (the majority of them) have nothing but lines > and numbers, basically useless.
Tab rarely contains timing. Can you play a tabbed guitar solo without having heard the original? I agree tab can and should contain proper timing info (note beginning and duration) – and you’re right that most net tab is crap. Tab’s great advantage is that it is text based, so perfect for transmission over the net. But it’s text basis is also its drawback when showing timing, I’ve yet to see a clear and elegant method. I’d love to see an example of precise and complete tab if you can post one. (seriously, not beng sarcastic!) >In fact, sheet music provides (or is capable of providing) everything >you need to play a song you’ve never heard before. > Wrong. Sheet music has NOTHING relating to how the guitar parts were > played by the artist the arrangement is based on. You have to come up > with your own way of playing it. Sheet music gives only the melody > line, and sometimes a lame-ass accompaniment that has little to do > with how the artist performed it.
I said "song". I’m fully aware (and said in my original post) "What it won’t do is show you precisely how the original artist performed it, or where to put your fingers on the fretboard." But there are plenty of rock transcription books that do show you exactly how the original artist played things, if that’s what you want. Most pro musicians only need the words, tune and chords. They prefer to play their own interpretation rather than copy original arrangements. (If they want more details, they can listen and transcribe for themselves.) They certainly don’t need tab to show them where to put their fingers. I agree about the "lame-ass" accompaniments in much sheet music. It used to piss me off too when I was learning guitar. Still, it wasn’t tab I missed (working out where to put my fingers was an important part of learning music), but accurate notation of riffs, etc. But I would not disagree that tab is more useful to a beginner. Best is to have both. Notation to show the shape of the tune and the timing (in the most elegant way possible), and tab for fingering. JonR
Response:
> Sheet music with chords is usually only a general guide for playing > the song on guitar (unless, of course, the song is meant as a guitar > instrumental). The treble clef is just going to have the melody so > you’ll know how to sing it. Even though it gives you the chord > symbol, you have to come up with a picking/strum pattern on your own. > Therefore, sheet music is most useful when you’re familiar with the > song but just need a reminder of the chords and lyrics.
Well, not exactly. That describes tab. In fact, sheet music provides (or is capable of providing) everything you need to play a song you’ve never heard before. What it won’t do is show you precisely how the original artist performed it, or where to put your fingers on the fretboard. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have been playing tab since i got my guitar, but found some old sheet >music of songs i’d like to play. I can read treble cleff (i play piano >as well). The thing is that the diagrams at the top of measures that >show the chord don’t seem to correspond to the notes in the melody line >below. Are you supposed to use that chord as a base but tweak it in >order to play the notes below? Or is the chord just for those who don’t >want to play the melody line? Thanks for any help.
Yes to both questions (you can treat it in either way). Any one bar of melody will be based around the chord shown, and will contain notes from the chord (usually on the strong beats), but will also contain passing notes between the chord tones. So yes, the chord is for rhythm accompaniment rather than an exact spelling of the tune, but you should be able to hold the chord and pick the tune out around it, or in between the chord notes. Usually, in fact (in piano music), the guitar chord will correspond to what’s in the left hand, and any harmony notes in the right hand. BTW, guitar sheet music is written an octave higher than piano music. The note sounding as middle C on piano, written on the ledger line below treble clef in piano double-stave, is played on 2nd string 1st fret on guitar and written in the 3rd space up in guitar music. This may only be relevant if you’re playing with a pianist or singer. JonR
Response:
I have been playing tab since i got my guitar, but found some old sheet music of songs i’d like to play. I can read treble cleff (i play piano as well). The thing is that the diagrams at the top of measures that show the chord don’t seem to correspond to the notes in the melody line below. Are you supposed to use that chord as a base but tweak it in order to play the notes below? Or is the chord just for those who don’t want to play the melody line? Thanks for any help.
Response:
Sheet music with chords is usually only a general guide for playing the song on guitar (unless, of course, the song is meant as a guitar instrumental). The treble clef is just going to have the melody so you’ll know how to sing it. Even though it gives you the chord symbol, you have to come up with a picking/strum pattern on your own. Therefore, sheet music is most useful when you’re familiar with the song but just need a reminder of the chords and lyrics. Tom Play By Ear guitar page http://www.planetkc.com/tallguy/index.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I have been playing tab since i got my guitar, but found some old sheet >music of songs i’d like to play. I can read treble cleff (i play piano >as well). The thing is that the diagrams at the top of measures that >show the chord don’t seem to correspond to the notes in the melody line >below. Are you supposed to use that chord as a base but tweak it in >order to play the notes below? Or is the chord just for those who don’t >want to play the melody line? Thanks for any help.
Response:
Related Posts