reply to e7 chord

Question:

I might also add that ALL of my students play for recreation.   best, Todd Tipton http://toddtipton.homestead.com I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.         –Galileo Galilei

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> hang on i never asked to decifer a chord i saw a post earlier and added to > it on my own post !!>

Don’t worry about it.  I certainly wouldn’t take anything personal.  I would not see any thing directed toward you as an individual.  The way I see it, your post was merely a vehicle to generate some folks’ thoughts on general ideas rather than anything specific.  Ask whatever you want to ask. best, Todd Tipton http://toddtipton.homestead.com I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.         –Galileo Galilei

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>No > It might be best, when making this comment, to explain what you mean by > "chaff". > The impression that you’ve given me is that

you consider recreational > players – and those who see teaching them as a

worthy pursuit – as "chaff." >Oh no.  That isn’t what I meant.  One could say my statement >about ANYTHING.  There is certainly nothing wrong with being >a recreational player.  In fact, I would hope that is so >obvious, that

no explanation would be needed.  I myself have >many recreations; that is part of what makes life >enjoyable.  Please excuse me for any confusion. >Because

the guitar IS so popular and so many people ARE >wanting to play it, there is a

lot of bad information out >there.  Learn to play guitar in a day!  Fix your rusty pipes >in your sink with Rid-a-goo! This is an analogy that might >make my

point clear.  We all know that their are ways that >APPEAR quicker than other

ways.  As people get involved, >they learn these quick fixes are really a head ache waiting >to happen.  Guitar students, as consumers, are victims just >as

much as any other segment of society in any other >activity.  Does that help to

understand my point a little >better? >For what it is worth, I am a

recreational electric guitar >player.  I love it.  It certainly isn’t chaff. >Todd Tipton >http://toddtipton.homestead.com >I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has >endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us >to forego their use. >        –Galileo Galilei

 Thank you for clearing that up. I, too, had no idea what that statement meant. I’m not dragging up old dirt and I guess what I’m trying to do with this post is restore some credibility in your sight (Question from teacher). You have no idea how many beginners have come to me after taking lessons elsewhere and said that they didn’t learn a thing from these other "teachers". Believe me, I give them the real stuff and flat out tell EVERY student to learn and practice as as much as possible so they can get out from under me or any teacher ASAP. If I sense that a student is getting slack, like coming back to a lesson the next week without practicing at all, I tell them that all they are doing is wasting their folks money and my time. So to all students out their, learn all you can while you can. This is a great place to learn. If you are reading on this newsgroup, you obviously have some hunger. Make use of it! Even if you are on the right track, you’ll still get ran over if you just sit there!        nate

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 You have no idea how many beginners have come to me after taking lessons elsewhere and said that they didn’t learn a thing from these other "teachers".> Oh I might.  :-)   Also, at at time, I would have been one of them. IMHO, I think it might also be important to note (for some who may legitimately be wondering) that it isn’t so easy  to define "chaff" with no context.  Things can either be a tool or a crutch.  And even labeling something as a tool or a crutch isn’t so easy either.  As I like to say, every student is unique.  Every situation is unique.  Every interaction between a student and a teacher is a unique experience that can never be duplicated. best, Todd Tipton http://toddtipton.homestead.com I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.         –Galileo Galilei

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>It’s not just a matter of opinion. The notes obtained by the fingering >he shows is just flat out _NOT_ an E7.

yeah i know

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> I’ve taught a few adults that just wanted to be able to strum chords for > campfire singalongs.  The basic 1st position chords and decent strumming > technique are all they need to know to get plenty of enjoyment from the > instrument.  If someone like that asks me a question about chords, I’m sure > as hell not going to give them a lecture on what *I* think they should have > learned.

I think I’d go further than that. One of the reasons for the guitar being a popular instrument is that you _can_ make music without the theory, it absolutely is not a requirement of playing for fun. Though true to a greater or lesser extent on other instruments, the guitar is a portable orchestra that just about anyone could pick up and play the average pop song. As someone whose original goal was to be that camp fire strummer you mentioned, I know that if I had to go a theory route then I wouldn’t have even bothered picking the thing up, it was in the knowledge that any dumb-ass kid could pick one up and turn himself into a pop-star in a week without having a clue about theory that encouraged me to think that it was possible to play the guitar for fun in my advancing years To me it was only having got past the physical hurdle of playing that the interest in theory started. Even now I am not interested in theory per se, it is only that the theory is a tool to simplifying playing. If you don’t play a lead guitar, then you can go a hell of a long way on basic shapes. Note how many schemes of theory are based on (dare I say it) visualisation, i.e. using the knowledge that people work in patterns quite happily where as a (mathematical) theory approach is not a natural one for most. Interestingly, theory (in its simplest sense of intervals and basic chord construction) leaps out as really important on the bass guitar where your life is ruled by 5ths and octaves and scales (for walking bass). It is really only picking up the bass which has clarified some of what I am doing on guitar. Odd that the "simpler" instrument where you play single notes seems to require more theory I don’t see that music is any different from other walks of life. I’m sure the average house builder didn’t learn theory but they know that if they don’t put a foundation in a house will fall down. They _might_ be a better builder having been through a structural engineering course, but if they can lay bricks in a straight line, no amount of theory is going to help them do it better – choosing the right mix for cement can be learnt on the job which might be called theory, or it might be called experience. Ian

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> But when someone starts asking someone else to figure out, "What chord > is this?" and "How do I make so and so chord?", it’s damned well time > that they at least _start_ to think about learning some basic theory.

Very true, particularly in this thread. <schnip> > I’m not at all sure just what your point is since you then proceed to > say how nice it would be if they did know.   ;^)

We probably agree more than we disagree, Chuck…the point I was trying to get across is that it’s easy to read you as saying that students shouldn’t proceed at ALL until they’ve learned the basics of theory.  I doubt that’s what you meant, but that’s how it sounded. For some students – depending on their objectives – leaving that stuff to the side for awhile is more productive.  For some people, their goals with the instrument don’t require them to learn ANY theory. I’ve taught a few adults that just wanted to be able to strum chords for campfire singalongs.  The basic 1st position chords and decent strumming technique are all they need to know to get plenty of enjoyment from the instrument.  If someone like that asks me a question about chords, I’m sure as hell not going to give them a lecture on what *I* think they should have learned. If they tell me "I’m going to play in the key of C right here," and show me the guitar capoed at the third fret, why not just play along in the key of Eb and have a good time? If they ask me four questions in a row and get annoying, I might point out that they need to start figuring stuff out for themselves…but their faux pas is as much about manners and social skills as it is about musical knowlege. Again, this thread is a good example of that phenomenon. Most fledgling guitarists, when they’ve mastered the basic techniques for the instrument, yearn to know why things work the way they do.  Some have to know it BEFORE they learn anything.  Some never need to know theory at all. And ANY of those people can enjoy the guitar just as much as we do. — Michael Pugh

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> We play a popular > instrument.  Perhaps one of the most popular instruments, > period.  It shouldn’t surprise us as to how much chaff there > is out there.  That is just life.

Todd, Since this is the second time you’ve made this point… It might be best, when making this comment, to explain what you mean by "chaff". The impression that you’ve given me is that you consider recreational players – and those who see teaching them as a worthy pursuit – as "chaff." The implication is that only players with serious performance objectives for the instrument are worthy of consideration. If that’s the case…I think you’re referring to a VERY large portion of the newsgroup as "chaff." And, to be honest, I bristle a little at that designation.  Perhaps I’ve misinterpreted your intent…if that’s the case, I look forward to your explanation. — Michael Pugh (just because I promised to be nice doesn’t mean I promised to be quiet)

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>This really is meant constructively Chuck and I hope you can see your way to >being less angry.

Angy? I’m not angry at all. Short and to the point may seem angry to some. So be it. I’m just plain spoken and always have been. To those that can’t deal with that I humbly suggest you bypass my posts. Constructively? Just as what I offer in this forum is meant to be constructive. It’s just that there are different approaches to "constructivism" [to steal and mis-apply a word]. You have your approach and I have mine. Perhaps [probably] your approach is better in most instances than mine. But consider if you will that with both approaches and between the two of us we will most likely reach more people than either of us would my ourself. My approach is simply to attempt to get the beginner to consider starting at the _beginning_ and going on from there rather than to try to start in the more inticing middle somewere. If we’re dealing with music the beginning _IS_ A, B, C, D, E, F, and G. Is it not??? And that is a beginning that everyone can understand .. which is as it should be. Everything that follows should follow in a logical sequence. If it does then everything is easily understandable in it’s time and place. If not, in logical order then confusion, doubt, frustration, and so forth set in. I mean, you don’t teach abstract theory until you have built the foundation of elementary and basic theory comprehension. In other words, if being of assistance to the newbie guitarist is your primary concern, perhaps we’d all be better off if we quit bickering among ourselves and got on with profering advice to the newbies.

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hang on i never asked to decifer a chord i saw a post earlier and added to it on my own post !!  i used the chord generator program and it shows the way i showed an E7 the same way and 8 diferent ways it can be played so ill tell the makers of the program they are wrong !!  and by the way i am very interested in learning all the stuff that makes a chord a chord and so on……. but im not going to learn it in here !!!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> But when someone starts asking someone else to figure out, "What chord > is this?" and "How do I make so and so chord?", it’s damned well time > that they at least _start_ to think about learning some basic theory. > Very true, particularly in this thread. > <schnip> > I’m not at all sure just what your point is since you then proceed to > say how nice it would be if they did know.   ;^) > We probably agree more than we disagree, Chuck…the point I was trying to > get across is that it’s easy to read you as saying that students shouldn’t > proceed at ALL until they’ve learned the basics of theory.  I doubt that’s > what you meant, but that’s how it sounded. > For some students – depending on their objectives – leaving that stuff to > the side for awhile is more productive.  For some people, their goals with > the instrument don’t require them to learn ANY theory. > I’ve taught a few adults that just wanted to be able to strum chords for > campfire singalongs.  The basic 1st position chords and decent strumming > technique are all they need to know to get plenty of enjoyment from the > instrument.  If someone like that asks me a question about chords, I’m sure > as hell not going to give them a lecture on what *I* think they should have > learned. > If they tell me "I’m going to play in the key of C right here," and show me > the guitar capoed at the third fret, why not just play along in the key of > Eb and have a good time? > If they ask me four questions in a row and get annoying, I might point out > that they need to start figuring stuff out for themselves…but their faux > pas is as much about manners and social skills as it is about musical > knowlege. > Again, this thread is a good example of that phenomenon. > Most fledgling guitarists, when they’ve mastered the basic techniques for > the instrument, yearn to know why things work the way they do.  Some have to > know it BEFORE they learn anything.  Some never need to know theory at all. > And ANY of those people can enjoy the guitar just as much as we do. > — > Michael Pugh

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> It might be best, when making this comment, to explain what you mean by > "chaff". > The impression that you’ve given me is that you consider recreational > players – and those who see teaching them as a worthy pursuit – as "chaff."

Oh no.  That isn’t what I meant.  One could say my statement about ANYTHING.  There is certainly nothing wrong with being a recreational player.  In fact, I would hope that is so obvious, that no explanation would be needed.  I myself have many recreations; that is part of what makes life enjoyable.  Please excuse me for any confusion. Because the guitar IS so popular and so many people ARE wanting to play it, there is a lot of bad information out there.  Learn to play guitar in a day!  Fix your rusty pipes in your sink with Rid-a-goo! This is an analogy that might make my point clear.  We all know that their are ways that APPEAR quicker than other ways.  As people get involved, they learn these quick fixes are really a head ache waiting to happen.  Guitar students, as consumers, are victims just as much as any other segment of society in any other activity.  Does that help to understand my point a little better? For what it is worth, I am a recreational electric guitar player.  I love it.  It certainly isn’t chaff. Todd Tipton http://toddtipton.homestead.com I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.         –Galileo Galilei

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> But when someone starts asking someone else to figure out, "What chord > is this?" and "How do I make so and so chord?">

You will notice that I usually (though not always) do not reply to these type of posts.  And when I DO reply, there is often a subtle, yet more important higher meaning in the answer.  The best advise may be, perhaps at times,  to just ignore these type of posts (not that there aren’t exceptions; I am generalizing).  But people can ask what they want.  People can answer whatever they want.  What is important thought, in my mind, is that your frustration is derived from passion, and THAT IN ITSELF can communicate some important ideas to those who will listen. > They all > drove over to take lessons off of me in order to get the easy to > comprehend basic elementary theory that I was teaching at the time.>

This IS frustrating.  If the typical college student was REALLY prepared in their private lessons, there would be no need for freshman and sophomore theory.  They might rather be remedial courses for a selected few individuals who showed promise in other areas, yet lacked the well rounded training to continue. > You betcha there is. But are you prepared to argue that these same > players would not be better players if they did know?????

You are reminding me a bit of Aaron Shearer!  :-) Unfortunately, a past remark I made was in an inappropriate place.  But now, it has some relevance.  We play a popular instrument.  Perhaps one of the most popular instruments, period.  It shouldn’t surprise us as to how much chaff there is out there.  That is just life.  And if someone can make a buck off of that fact, they will.  It can be a vicious downward cycle for an unsuspecting beginning student who often has no basis for evaluating information (not that they should) when confronted with all the "resources" available. Todd Tipton http://toddtipton.homestead.com I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.         –Galileo Galilei

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>>yah but still i looked it up, and my E7th can still be played the way i >showed 350000  ! >if it’s just a matter of opinion, why bother ?

It’s not just a matter of opinion. The notes obtained by the fingering he shows is just flat out _NOT_ an E7.

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>Chuck… >"When the time comes" is a different equation for everyone.

Sure it is. Never said it wasn’t. But when someone starts asking someone else to figure out, "What chord is this?" and "How do I make so and so chord?", it’s damned well time that they at least _start_ to think about learning some basic theory. I’m not saying that tomorrow that person should be able to understand all that I have posted regarding basic theory [even though what I posted is kindergarten level theory]. I am saying that it’s time they started nosing around in some form of theory lessons. If you have a better idea, then have at it. Some 40 years ago I had the privilege of teaching guitar at the beginner level. I stressed elementary theory in the form as I posted it here. The students ate it up. The thing that surprised me was this … I had three or four students that were music majors in a well known college some 30 miles from where my studio was located. They all drove over to take lessons off of me in order to get the easy to comprehend basic elementary theory that I was teaching at the time. Some of them had been taking piano lessons since before starting elementary school AND HAD NEVER LEARNED THE SIMPLE BASICS THAT I WAS TEACHING. These music majors were astounded at what they had _NOT_ been taught up to the point where they had heard of me. They all just shook their heads in amazement at how the lights came on when they grasp the simple things I was teaching  … they now understood so much more of what the professors were trying to pound into their iddy biddy pointed heads. So pardon me if I push theory. It’s really nothing to me one way or the other. I won’t make or lose a dime if someone does or doesn’t pay any attention to what I’m trying to get across. But as I’ve stated previoulsy, if someone wants to eat they should learn how to earn enough so as to be able to buy their own groceries. Same thing with picking a guitar … if someone wants to learn more than the basic open chords that almost everyone starts out on, then by God they ought to have enough ambition to put in the little bit of mental effort it would take them in order to start to learn how to figure out some chords on their own instead of always having to find someone else willing to do their thinking for them. >This obviously bugs you a bit, since you wrote three posts in rapid >succession that basically said the same thing…but it’s worth noting that >not EVERYONE learns that way.

True. But the ones that don’t learn that way would be _MUCH_ better off if they did learn that way. >In fact, there are a number of very good players that don’t know even the >basic stuff you wrote in the prior post.

You betcha there is. But are you prepared to argue that these same players would not be better players if they did know????? I’m not at all sure just what your point is since you then proceed to say how nice it would be if they did know.   ;^)

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> yah but still i looked it up, and my E7th can still be played the way i > showed 350000  !

You may wish to reevaluate the accuracy of your sources. The chord you cite is an e minor 7th chord in 1st inversion.  In other words, it is an e min7th/G.  Further, in most typical circumstances your example would be a poorly voiced chord.   Another important point is this:  beginners must understand that there isn’t ONE way to finger a chord, or a preferred chord other than what the music demands.  As to HOW a chord is voiced depends on the context of the chord within the music, and yielding to good voice leading.  When someone asks how to finger a chord, in the strict sense of application, the question really has no meaning.   The most important points are the implications from above. Todd Tipton http://toddtipton.homestead.com I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.         –Galileo Galilei

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> yah but still i looked it up, and my E7th can still be played the way i > showed 350000  !

No, it can’t.  You are obviously misunderstanding whatever reference you are using. 350000 is, at best, an Em7/G…and it’s a pretty obtuse fingering for that, to be honest.  There would be some situations where you’d use that fingering, but not a lot.

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>yah but still i looked it up, and my E7th can still be played the way i >showed 350000  !

if it’s just a matter of opinion, why bother ? joeri

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>yah but still i looked it up, and my E7th can still be played the way i >showed 350000  !

Like hell it can! Not if your guitar is tuned standard! I could easily disect your notation and show you why it is not an E7 .. but I’m not gonna do your work for you. An Em7, yes. An E7 … NO WAY!

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<lots of good information on elementary music theory, ending with> > Now we’ve covered more ground here than you may well realize. But > there’s the information you should be starting out with. Actually more > information than you should be starting out with! I know … you want > other things and you want them _NOW_! I know! But the ‘other things’ > you want are all rooted in and flow from the above information. The > more you comprehend, the more you become conversant with the above > information, the more sense the above information makes to you .. THE > EASIER THE "MORE" WILL BE AND THE MORE SENSE THE "MORE" THAT YOU’RE > WANTING WILL MAKE TO YOU when the time comes.   ;^)

Chuck… "When the time comes" is a different equation for everyone. This obviously bugs you a bit, since you wrote three posts in rapid succession that basically said the same thing…but it’s worth noting that not EVERYONE learns that way. In fact, there are a number of very good players that don’t know even the basic stuff you wrote in the prior post. Some people can play an awful lot of music before learning all the stuff you just mentioned.  They’ll likely be able to play a LOT more after learning a bit about music theory. Other people need the intellectual framework that theory provides in order to make any progress at all. I’d agree that *anyone* wanting to become truly proficient on guitar needs to learn and understand basic theory.  I DON’T agree that they all need to learn it in the particular order that you’re proscribing…in fact, there are a lot of people for whom using your approach would be exactly the WRONG way to go about learning…their brains don’t work that way. This isn’t an excuse for a lackadaisical approach to learning the instrument…far from it.  Everyone should recognize that some of their questions are going to be unanswerable UNLESS they learn basic theory.  And whatever approach they take to learning the instrument, they’ve got to get a little obsessed with it in the first few months to get over the hump. So…to any beginner reading this and thinking "Yeah!  I don’t need to learn all that theory stuff!!!  I just want to rock!!!"…dream on.  You’re gonna have to learn it eventually.  But if you find that playing the instrument comes easily to you without learning theory, it’s OK to explore that approach for awhile, with full recognition that you are limiting your progress as long as you avoid studying the basics. In exactly the same way that someone who studied theory, but never picked up the instrument, would be limiting their progress. If you’re struggling to understand how it all fits together, and feel confused by the terminology….if you don’t play naturally by ear, and need to KNOW which chord to play next without "feeling" it…you could probably benefit by starting with a little basic theory at the same time you’re learning basic guitar techniques.  - Mike Pugh

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>why not you say?? well i havnt got that far yet!! why is the E7 wrong?? >tell me whats up

You start at the beginning … the musical alphabet. First seven letters of everyone’s alphabet. A, B, C, D, E, F, and G. Then you learn the chromatic scale. A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A [acending].  and/or A, Ab, G, Gb, F, E, Eb, D, Db, C, B, Bb, A [decending]. You come to understand that there is a half tone [also called a half step] between A and A#, between A# and B, Between B and C .. and so on. Visualize it like this: |A|  |B|C|  |D|  |E|F|  |G|  |A|  |B|C|  |D| … and on and on and on to infinity in either direction. You learn the rule for a Major scale … Whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step. Often written using only the first letters like this: WWHWWWH Visualize the rule for a Major scale like this: |1|  |2|  |3|4|  |5|  |6|  |7|8| The notes required for any Major scale can be determined by applying the rule for a Major scale against the chromatic scale.It’ll work _every_ time. At first your work in chords and scales will probably be [_SHOULD_ be] mostly in the key of C Major. The reason being, C Major is a "natural scale". By "natural scale" we mean that there are no flats or sharps in the C Major scale. In the beginning you’re better off working in the natural scale … you’ll have enough to worry about at the beginning without confusing yourself with sharps and flats.   Each fret on your guitar will raise or lower the pitch one half step. After you understand all of the above, you need to understand the rule for a Major chord [Major triad]: 1+3+5. In other words, the first plus the third plus the fifth notes of the appropriate Major scale are required in order to make a Major chord [Major triad]. While we’re at this point, you may want to start thinking about the rule for a minor chord [triad]. 1+b3+5. Every Major chord has a "relative minor". The relative minor will be the 6th of the Major. Not as confusing as it may seem after you get into it. Count with me … C[1], D[2], E[3], F[4], G[5], A[6], B[7], and C[8, or octave]. Now that wasn’t hard at all, was it!   The little numbers game we just played tells us many, many things about the C Major scale, the notes we need to make a C Major chord, a C minor chord, the relative minor of C Major, and some more things that we won’t go into at this point. The notes required for a C Major chord: C[1], E[3], and G[5]. That’s it! Any combination of C’s, E’s and G’s and you have a C Major chord! The notes required for a C minor chord: C[1] Eb[b3] and G[5]! That it! Any combination of C’s, Eb’s and G’s and you have a C minor chord! The relative minor of C Major. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 …. A! That it! The relative minor of C Major is A minor! The A minor scale uses the exact same notes as the C Major scale but you start on A instead of C. [You more advanced types, I know .. let's keep it simple for the beginners, ok???] There’s the foundation you need to build on .. so build the foundation correctly and solidly! Now we’ve covered more ground here than you may well realize. But there’s the information you should be starting out with. Actually more information than you should be starting out with! I know … you want other things and you want them _NOW_! I know! But the ‘other things’ you want are all rooted in and flow from the above information. The more you comprehend, the more you become conversant with the above information, the more sense the above information makes to you .. THE EASIER THE "MORE" WILL BE AND THE MORE SENSE THE "MORE" THAT YOU’RE WANTING WILL MAKE TO YOU when the time comes.   ;^)

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yah but still i looked it up, and my E7th can still be played the way i showed 350000  !

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->why not you say?? well i havnt got that far yet!! why is the E7 wrong?? >tell me whats up > You start at the beginning … the musical alphabet. First seven > letters of everyone’s alphabet. > A, B, C, D, E, F, and G. > Then you learn the chromatic scale. > A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A [acending]. >  and/or > A, Ab, G, Gb, F, E, Eb, D, Db, C, B, Bb, A [decending]. > You come to understand that there is a half tone [also called a half > step] between A and A#, between A# and B, Between B and C .. and so > on. > Visualize it like this: > |A|  |B|C|  |D|  |E|F|  |G|  |A|  |B|C|  |D| … and on and on and on to

infinity in either direction. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You learn the rule for a Major scale … Whole step, whole step, half > step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step. Often written > using only the first letters like this: WWHWWWH > Visualize the rule for a Major scale like this: > |1|  |2|  |3|4|  |5|  |6|  |7|8| > The notes required for any Major scale can be determined by applying > the rule for a Major scale against the chromatic scale.It’ll work > _every_ time. > At first your work in chords and scales will probably be [_SHOULD_ be] > mostly in the key of C Major. The reason being, C Major is a "natural > scale". By "natural scale" we mean that there are no flats or sharps > in the C Major scale. In the beginning you’re better off working in > the natural scale … you’ll have enough to worry about at the > beginning without confusing yourself with sharps and flats. > Each fret on your guitar will raise or lower the pitch one half step. > After you understand all of the above, you need to understand the rule > for a Major chord [Major triad]: 1+3+5. In other words, the first plus > the third plus the fifth notes of the appropriate Major scale are > required in order to make a Major chord [Major triad]. > While we’re at this point, you may want to start thinking about the > rule for a minor chord [triad]. 1+b3+5. > Every Major chord has a "relative minor". The relative minor will be > the 6th of the Major. Not as confusing as it may seem after you get > into it. Count with me … C[1], D[2], E[3], F[4], G[5], A[6], B[7], > and C[8, or octave]. > Now that wasn’t hard at all, was it! > The little numbers game we just played tells us many, many things > about the C Major scale, the notes we need to make a C Major chord, a > C minor chord, the relative minor of C Major, and some more things > that we won’t go into at this point. > The notes required for a C Major chord: C[1], E[3], and G[5]. That’s > it! Any combination of C’s, E’s and G’s and you have a C Major chord! > The notes required for a C minor chord: C[1] Eb[b3] and G[5]! That it! > Any combination of C’s, Eb’s and G’s and you have a C minor chord! > The relative minor of C Major. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 …. A! That it! The > relative minor of C Major is A minor! > The A minor scale uses the exact same notes as the C Major scale but > you start on A instead of C. [You more advanced types, I know .. let's > keep it simple for the beginners, ok???] > There’s the foundation you need to build on .. so build the foundation > correctly and solidly! > Now we’ve covered more ground here than you may well realize. But > there’s the information you should be starting out with. Actually more > information than you should be starting out with! I know … you want > other things and you want them _NOW_! I know! But the ‘other things’ > you want are all rooted in and flow from the above information. The > more you comprehend, the more you become conversant with the above > information, the more sense the above information makes to you .. THE > EASIER THE "MORE" WILL BE AND THE MORE SENSE THE "MORE" THAT YOU’RE > WANTING WILL MAKE TO YOU when the time comes.   ;^)

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>why not you say?? well i havnt got that far yet!! why is the E7 wrong?? >tell me whats up

What’s up? Well, here we go again. You really should start at the beginning … you know … all that stuff that bores you to death. Like how many letters in the musical alphabet .. and what are those letters. Like what is a half step [half tone]. Like what is a whole step [whole tone]. Like what is a sharp and what does it do to a note. Like what is a flat and what does it do to a note.. Like recite the chromatic scale acending. Like how does that relate to a guitar’s fretboard. Like recite the chromatic scale decending. Like what is the rule for a Major scale. Like what is the rule for a Major chord. You know … all that boring crap. It’s called elementary theory.. It’s called starting at "go" instead of somewhere in the middle. The above "likes" are all simple, elementary, basic music theory. So simple any 12 year old can learn it by heart. But, conversly, so profound that, once comprehended, you could figure out any Major chord fingering on the neck of your guitar without asking anyone. Learn one more "like" and you could figure out any minor chord fingering. Lke[the rule that says you flat the third and the chord becomes a minor chord. But first you have to learn what a third is. You know .... all that boring theory crap that no one wants to learn. So much easier to let someone teach/show you _wrong_.

Response:

why not you say?? well i havnt got that far yet!! why is the E7 wrong?? tell me whats up

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text ->i was tought this as E7   350000.  is this right?? >also Em7  as   050000   what about that ?? > In both of the above fingerings: > Em7, yes. > E7, no. > You were tought wrong. > Let me ask you a few questions. > [1] Do you have the first clue what notes you are playing in either of > the examples you quote? > [2] If not, why not? > [3] Do you have any idea what notes it takes to comprise a E7 chord? > [4] If not, why not??

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i was tought this as E7   350000.  is this right?? also Em7  as   050000   what about that ??

Response:

>i was tought this as E7   350000.  is this right?? >also Em7  as   050000   what about that ??

In both of the above fingerings: Em7, yes. E7, no. You were tought wrong. Let me ask you a few questions. [1] Do you have the first clue what notes you are playing in either of the examples you quote? [2] If not, why not? [3] Do you have any idea what notes it takes to comprise a E7 chord? [4] If not, why not??

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