Tone!

Question:

Thank you Daniel I missed that until you reminded me.  Chuck definitely missed what I was trying to say.  I have tons of pedals, several amps and several guitars, but I still sound like Lon Smith and never like Jimi Hendrix unless I am trying to imitate. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > :>My humble opinion is that proper tone comes from the fingers, definitely not > :>the amp within reason. > : Uh huh. > : That’s the reason they have all those EQ knobs on amps and guitars! > : And that’s the reason Fender amps sound entirely different that do > : Gibson, Vox, etc., etc.. That’s the reason you hear all the arguments > : about swimming pool route, wood type, single coil vs humbucking, and > : on and on and on and on. > : And that’s why some of you get hung up on tube amps and tell us that > : SS sucks! > : If tone is all in the fingers then just hang six pieces of bailing > : wire on a 2X4 and get it on … > : But tone is all in the fingers! > : Hogwash! > Chuck, > I think that you missed the "within reason" portion of Lon’s > post. > -Pugs

> "You’re just jealous because the voices only talk to me!"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> To e-mail, remove dot thirty-four.

Response:

This may actually be more usefull as you can go to the stores and check it out: Belowe are some Marshall 4×12 cabs – they are all closed back design – for that reason you may find the bottom cab (not the slanted) having the most low output (based on the bigger physical volume). The drawback of this would be standing near to the cab you don’t hear as much highs as from a slanted top cab. The work around is to tilt the cab a little backwards or use a very long cord and join the listening crowd The cabs comes with different speakers if you have the possiblity go and check them out somewhere. This may very well point you in the direction you wan’t to go if modding your own cab. Marshall 1960A/B comes with G12T-75 speakers Marshall 1960 AC/BC comes with re-issue Greenbacks Marshall 1960 AV/BV comes with a Vintage speaker You may want to check both top and bottom cab ! Marshall makes other 4×12 which should sound about the same as 1960 AC/BV as the dressing and physical measures may be different but the speakers are still re-issue Greenbacks. A no cost hint is the old trick – don’t turn down the volume on the amp but on your guitar. Roll the guitar vol slightly back and listen what it does for your sound (it maybe what you are looking for) If the guitar is not modded (with a cap across the potm.) – you should lose some highs and get a softer more mellow tone. Check it out it’s the best sounding tone control IMHO and when you turn it back up you are so ready to solo. miniauth

Response:

My humble opinion is that proper tone comes from the fingers, definitely not the amp within reason.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I understand that this is a beginners group but I would like your > opinions. > Like most guitar players, no matter how long they have been playing, I > am looking for the right tone. > I have played through almost every amp available at one time or > another. > So far my Marshall half stack is the best. > I have it set up for a good clean sound because I do much comping > (playing rhythm) but I also play my share of solos. > When I kick the volume up I am happy with my distortion. > Where my tone is lacking is in the bottom end at low to mid volumes. > My amp is pentode/triode switching at 25 or 50 watts. > I usually play it at 50 watts because it has more clean headroom. > My speakers are Celestion vintage 30’s. > I am considering changing them to Electrovoice’s. > This will probably add another 50 pound to my rig and it is already > heavy. > Anybody got any ideas of how to increase the bass at low-mid volumes? > EQ helps but not enough. > Thanks. > Pt

Response:

Hi, Just another suggestion on top miniauth’s.  Have you considered a bass boost type circuit to put in your guitar(s)? You may not want it on all the time, but you can wire them to have a toggle switch or another tone knob to activate it. This will give you that extra low end when you need it, and it wont interfere with your other tones, I’m assuming you dont want them changed – but if you want more lows on all your tones then you can just leave it on. Some suggestions are the EMG ones. http://www.emgpickups.com and they are in accessories. The two i’ve quickly spotted, The EMG-SPC : "The SPC or "Strat Presence Control" is often called the fat control. The original intent of the SPC was to turn the tone of a single-coil pickup into a dual-coil. This is accomplished by boosting the gain in a broad mid-band fashion and reducing the highs. The result is a fatter, louder tone from any single coil pickup, but you can also use it on a humbucking to give you a high output, really fat tone that’s great for slide guitar." or the EMG-EXG : "For flexibility in tone at your fingertips there is no better choice than the EXG Guitar Expander. The frequency response of the EXG is similar to normal guitar amp equalization. The lows and highs are boosted while the midrange is dipped out. The EXG is great for creating a fuller tone that doesn’t get muddy, while keeping it clean and clear, letting your guitar stand out in the mix" I’m sure there’s more out there, especially ones that just boost the bass.  There must also be the circuit diags/schematics out there as well so you could probably build one yourself. Not too sure if changing the speakers will do so much.  I use celestion vintage 30’s and I have no problem with low mids. The only other thing may be the construction of the cab, i.e. using a heavier wood, e.g. solid pine, would give it a thicker sound, or maybe (i’m pretty sure about this, not 100%) the depth of the cab as well has an effect of the bass.  But all these would change all of your other tones, which may not be desirable. So some sort of bass boost circuitry for your guitar may be a good idea. Hope it helps, Jon.

Response:

Thanks ,moo. That might be just what I’m looking for. Pt

Response:

>My humble opinion is that proper tone comes from the fingers, definitely not >the amp within reason.

Uh huh. That’s the reason they have all those EQ knobs on amps and guitars! And that’s the reason Fender amps sound entirely different that do Gibson, Vox, etc., etc.. That’s the reason you hear all the arguments about swimming pool route, wood type, single coil vs humbucking, and on and on and on and on. And that’s why some of you get hung up on tube amps and tell us that SS sucks! If tone is all in the fingers then just hang six pieces of bailing wire on a 2X4 and get it on … But tone is all in the fingers! Hogwash!

Response:

:>My humble opinion is that proper tone comes from the fingers, definitely not :>the amp within reason. : Uh huh. : That’s the reason they have all those EQ knobs on amps and guitars! : And that’s the reason Fender amps sound entirely different that do : Gibson, Vox, etc., etc.. That’s the reason you hear all the arguments : about swimming pool route, wood type, single coil vs humbucking, and : on and on and on and on. : And that’s why some of you get hung up on tube amps and tell us that : SS sucks! : If tone is all in the fingers then just hang six pieces of bailing : wire on a 2X4 and get it on … : But tone is all in the fingers! : Hogwash! Chuck,         I think that you missed the "within reason" portion of Lon’s post.   -Pugs "You’re just jealous because the voices only talk to me!" To e-mail, remove dot thirty-four.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I understand that this is a beginners group but I would like your > opinions. > Like most guitar players, no matter how long they have been playing, I > am looking for the right tone. > I have played through almost every amp available at one time or > another. > So far my Marshall half stack is the best. > I have it set up for a good clean sound because I do much comping > (playing rhythm) but I also play my share of solos. > When I kick the volume up I am happy with my distortion. > Where my tone is lacking is in the bottom end at low to mid volumes. > My amp is pentode/triode switching at 25 or 50 watts. > I usually play it at 50 watts because it has more clean headroom. > My speakers are Celestion vintage 30’s. > I am considering changing them to Electrovoice’s. > This will probably add another 50 pound to my rig and it is already > heavy. > Anybody got any ideas of how to increase the bass at low-mid volumes? > EQ helps but not enough. > Thanks. > Pt

It’s pretty hard to get plenty lows at a low volume even on a 4×12 cab. A lot depends on your choice of guitar and pickups. (and of course your definition on low volume). If you play your telecaster I would imagine it could be a little on the tinny side at low volume. On the other side an LP using the neck pickup would probably give plenty lows. You already know all this so changing guitar is probably not an option. What you should give a good thinking is all 4 speakers dosen’t have to be alike ! Still observing the correct impedans you can actually change 2 speakers to a make or model with more lows which could lead to the best of two worlds. That way you can balance the cab to your liking and your preferred guitar. Maybe this little selection demo can help (they really should have used the same sound sample on all speakers): http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/tone/index.html miniauth

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I understand that this is a beginners group but I would like your > opinions. > Like most guitar players, no matter how long they have been playing, I > am looking for the right tone. > I have played through almost every amp available at one time or > another. > So far my Marshall half stack is the best. > I have it set up for a good clean sound because I do much comping > (playing rhythm) but I also play my share of solos. > When I kick the volume up I am happy with my distortion. > Where my tone is lacking is in the bottom end at low to mid volumes. > My amp is pentode/triode switching at 25 or 50 watts. > I usually play it at 50 watts because it has more clean headroom. > My speakers are Celestion vintage 30’s. > I am considering changing them to Electrovoice’s. > This will probably add another 50 pound to my rig and it is already > heavy. > Anybody got any ideas of how to increase the bass at low-mid volumes? > EQ helps but not enough. > Thanks. > Pt >It’s pretty hard to get plenty lows at a low volume even on a 4×12 cab. A >lot depends on your choice of guitar and pickups. >(and of course your definition on low volume). >If you play your telecaster I would imagine it could be a little on the >tinny side at low volume. On the other side an LP using the neck pickup >would probably give plenty lows. >You already know all this so changing guitar is probably not an option. >What you should give a good thinking is all 4 speakers dosen’t have to be >alike ! >Still observing the correct impedans you can actually change 2 speakers to a >make or model with more lows which could lead to the best of two worlds. >That way you can balance the cab to your liking and your preferred guitar. >Maybe this little selection demo can help (they really should have used the >same sound sample on all speakers): >http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/tone/index.html >miniauth

Good info. Thanks. Pt

Response:

I understand that this is a beginners group but I would like your opinions. Like most guitar players, no matter how long they have been playing, I am looking for the right tone. I have played through almost every amp available at one time or another. So far my Marshall half stack is the best. I have it set up for a good clean sound because I do much comping (playing rhythm) but I also play my share of solos. When I kick the volume up I am happy with my distortion. Where my tone is lacking is in the bottom end at low to mid volumes. My amp is pentode/triode switching at 25 or 50 watts. I usually play it at 50 watts because it has more clean headroom. My speakers are Celestion vintage 30’s. I am considering changing them to Electrovoice’s. This will probably add another 50 pound to my rig and it is already heavy. Anybody got any ideas of how to increase the bass at low-mid volumes? EQ helps but not enough. Thanks. Pt

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